Community Input - Combat Visual Identifiers

BioXide

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Jun 1, 2017
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Guns of the Conclave
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Hello Citizens,

Before we begin, I wanted to mention that we'll be doing community input threads more frequently, these threads give you the opportunity to assist the development of Mankind Reborn, we are a community driven game, so it's ideal to allow our community to influence the development of the game. Here's how this will work, we will work on the design of X feature internally, then bring up a community input thread to allow the community to voice their opinion and give ideas on the feature, we'll then grab ideas from both the developers and the community to further expand on the features and then finalize it in the Game Design Document, this is your time to shape the future of mankind! :)

Let's begin.

I've been going over some things in my head that I want to discuss, which boils down to these points:

- How can we visually represent damage
- How to identify which boosters players have
(And know when they are activated)
- Other combat elements which are important

Some shooters have damage numbers, health bars and other forms of visual aid to give you more information and feedback during combat. We plan on having some implants that offer player information at the cost of bio-energy, especially the "combat eye" (dev name), which will display player's health bars and other important information, we want a nice balance of offering enough feedback without overdoing it. You should be able to know what your opponent's "build" is by looking at their armor, weapons, implants, as well as knowing what consumables they're using by looking at their animations (or other features) during combat.

Some questions for you guys (Like always, these threads are for discussion and nothing here is official):

- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?
(They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)
- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)
- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic

Looking forward to your ideas!
 

Hard Hat Harry

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Sep 8, 2017
176
The Syndicate
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I would like a little more realism added to the combat. Let's say someone gets below a certain HP, they go into a wounded animation and if hurt bad enough, they just fall down unable to fight. Perhaps put it on a delay so that it won't affect the fight, but if the person somehow escapes, they'll fall over wounded after a few mins.
 
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PhoenixMask

Dilettante

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- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?

Blood particle worked fine for FoM and would still work fine here
Maybe some slight limping animation would be fine when the player is near death, but something in FoM I liked is how you could figure out that someone was almost dead due to the person focusing more on dodging than shooting/spazzing. Animations would take some of that depth out of combat.

- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?
(They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)


Would probably look really derpy considering players are popping meds while constantly shooting in this kind of combat. I wouldn't mind having this but would probably be hard to get it right

- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him?
(EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)


With an implant: Yes, would be interesting for some people to be able to take this implant and provide some intel during combat, as long as there are some others good options for implants in the same slot so this doesn't just become default. I'm against it showing health though due to what I pointed out before.
As for particles i'm worried about clutter. Everyone would be constantly green due to healing most of the time, if we add particles for every buff it would get worse . It's bad for people to understand what's going on(and the combat in this game is already pretty chaotic) and imo breaks a bit of the immersion that we need in the game.
 

Tod Maddux

Enthusiast

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Jun 30, 2017
260
Civil Protection Commission
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Can we have scrolling combat text? I want to be able to see when I get a crit.
 
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Osiris

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Oct 4, 2017
28
Guns of the Conclave
Rank: None
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I would like a little more realism added to the combat. Let's say someone gets below a certain HP, they go into a wounded animation and if hurt bad enough, they just fall down unable to fight. Perhaps put it on a delay so that it won't affect the fight, but if the person somehow escapes, they'll fall over wounded after a few mins.

I'm not sure.... This could get kinda weird in zerg fights.
 

Skiy

Dilettante

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Alpha Tester
Jun 11, 2017
117
The Syndicate
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Service Points: 2
I would like a little more realism added to the combat. Let's say someone gets below a certain HP, they go into a wounded animation and if hurt bad enough, they just fall down unable to fight. Perhaps put it on a delay so that it won't affect the fight, but if the person somehow escapes, they'll fall over wounded after a few mins.

Personally I'd rather just have a DBNO system. Have the HP be 100 with it able to go down to -20 or something, between 0 and -20 you're downed and can be picked up or just executed.
 

macmardigan

Citizen

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 28, 2017
63
Among the living
Guns of the Conclave
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- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
How about having an electrocardiogram which is displayed when you have a proper eye implant? This graph would be altered by wounds, the use of boosters and meds.
- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant) Why not? You could also add a square for the med he’s taking and remove the green particle.
- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic
Will there be any friend and foe identification system? If so, will departments be able to override general settings by HC?
 

Winston

Taxpayer

Nov 5, 2017
31
Terran Defense Corps
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?

An immersive way to show how bad a character is hurt would be to show blood and wounds on the character's body and ripped clothes / damaged armor as his health points gets lower. It does require a lot more work to create different skins for every piece of clothing and armor though so I don't know if that is even a possibility.
I know Black Desert does this, Darkfall used to do it too. To give examples of what I'm talking about.

- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?

This would definitely help but these item animations shouldn't be too long otherwise it might be frustrating to die as you are stuck in animation. If an item is not instant use (like a large medkit for example), you should be allowed to quickly cancel the animation.

- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him?

I'm not a fan of too many particle effects as it tends to make battles look like a mess. Maybe the implant could allow you to see direct stats when you target a character, I kinda liked the electrocardiogram idea.[/quote][/quote]
 

Cadonez

Activist

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jul 29, 2017
326
Brumpapa
The Syndicate
Rank: Master (R6)
Service Points: 0
Maybe a targeting implant that shows an individual or group the target (target painter gun in fom sucked, maybe last person shot by group leader and he presses a function key to lock that target)
 
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Hard Hat Harry

Helpful Citizen

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Sep 8, 2017
176
The Syndicate
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
An immersive way to show how bad a character is hurt would be to show blood and wounds on the character's body and ripped clothes / damaged armor as his health points gets lower. It does require a lot more work to create different skins for every piece of clothing and armor though so I don't know if that is even a possibility.
I think it should be the opposite. As I gain the upper hand in a duel, my arms should keep getting bigger and bigger. Once my opponent is below 10 HP, the arms will rip through my shirt.
 
Jul 11, 2017
7
No Faction
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
Hello Citizens,

Before we begin, I wanted to mention that we'll be doing community input threads more frequently, these threads give you the opportunity to assist the development of Mankind Reborn, we are a community driven game, so it's ideal to allow our community to influence the development of the game. Here's how this will work, we will work on the design of X feature internally, then bring up a community input thread to allow the community to voice their opinion and give ideas on the feature, we'll then grab ideas from both the developers and the community to further expand on the features and then finalize it in the Game Design Document, this is your time to shape the future of mankind! :)

Let's begin.

I've been going over some things in my head that I want to discuss, which boils down to these points:

- How can we visually represent damage
- How to identify which boosters players have
(And know when they are activated)
- Other combat elements which are important

Some shooters have damage numbers, health bars and other forms of visual aid to give you more information and feedback during combat. We plan on having some implants that offer player information at the cost of bio-energy, especially the "combat eye" (dev name), which will display player's health bars and other important information, we want a nice balance of offering enough feedback without overdoing it. You should be able to know what your opponent's "build" is by looking at their armor, weapons, implants, as well as knowing what consumables they're using by looking at their animations (or other features) during combat.

Some questions for you guys (Like always, these threads are for discussion and nothing here is official):

- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?
(They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)
- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)
- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic

Looking forward to your ideas!
I dont think you should know how much damage you do to your opponent, i also think you should not see opponent's health, this would make focusing people during combat much, much more easier ,imo red pants should get you killed not 36% hp or your wounded animation but i did not get to test mr's combat so i dont know how even combat works,

i dont think i should know what boosters my target have active, but i think it would be nice flavour to have drugs to have affects on players, eg yelling wildly after using certain types of drugs,
 

Sam Lysander

Taxpayer

Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Oct 23, 2018
39
Arizona
Oda Zaibatsu
Rank: Daimyo (R6)
Service Points: 0
I think that blood splattering is good, particle effects will get messy and cause issues in larger fights. Having an implant that could give you an idea when things are happening with your opponent might be interesting, but it would be better if kept vague. Direct health bars would take away from combat immersion, there was always a rush of not knowing how well you were doing in a fight, and for me that was both immersive and exciting, maybe frustrating at times, but it was unique and enjoyable mostly. As for animations, if they are quick and generally non disruptive of the combat process, it might be alright, it could add more to it, especially when it comes to training your faction to fight, when to use meds and when not to etc.

An immersive way to show how bad a character is hurt would be to show blood and wounds on the character's body and ripped clothes / damaged armor as his health points gets lower. It does require a lot more work to create different skins for every piece of clothing and armor though so I don't know if that is even a possibility.
I know Black Desert does this, Darkfall used to do it too. To give examples of what I'm talking about.

I like this idea but agree it could be difficult, a simpler method on a similar approach to this may be different audio queues. I recall in FOM when you get shot sometimes there would be a sound from your character. Changing the tones of that sound to reflect more desperation as the situation gets worse for them might be a more feasible alternative.
 

TheJoker

Dilettante

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Sep 20, 2017
133
Australia
Guns of the Conclave
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?

I reckon just add blood splatters, scratches tears, damaged armour and bullet wounds actually like they look like they've been in a fight.

- Should an animation play out when using consumable items? (They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)

I like the animation idea. I guess it would look a little weird in fights but maybe some subtle ones would be good

- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)

I wouldn't like green particles or squares or health bars I liked original fom with no HP indicators of the sort made the combat more fun as you were wondering when someone was gonna die, instead of looking at a Health meter.

If someone takes drugs maybe some small changes to skin, face or eyes to show there under the effects of drugs. Would make policing as a cop great as you could look upon a perp visually to see if they were under the effects of drugs.

- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic

To be honest I don't like the idea of health bars or lots of icons hanging around I would rather be in the moment and watching my opponent rather than health bars ticking down. I believe that stuff belongs in WoW
 

MadGamer8872

Dweller

Apr 3, 2019
11
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There needs to be a rework on combat.... Im not playing GTA: san andreas....

Combat should not look like chicken with no heads but with guns... its 2019 not 1990s
An before i hear someone say "The game isnt about combat" well your bs ur self an the game. You have guns, you use the guns to take land, and you get more guns to get more land..... Yes its got somewhat to do about combat...

Get Rid of this FoM combat system an make it more fun for you, and the rest of us. I want a shoot out with my members
Idea
Real

Both of these are bad, but combat should be based on skill but also based on the people around you
Buffs while in groups buffs while in cover an so on.
 

MadGamer8872

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Apr 3, 2019
11
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This ain't the game for you fam.


I guess why this is why there making a Third installment? ... There not? oh yeah its a game that has some inspiration..

Could be wrong. OOF my bad
 
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Skiy

Dilettante

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Alpha Tester
Jun 11, 2017
117
The Syndicate
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I guess why this is why there making a Third installment? ... There not? oh yeah its a game that has some inspiration..

Could be wrong. OOF my bad


I don't quite understand what you're talking about here sorry buddy. If you're on about it taking inspiration from FoM? Then it'd be the "fourth"installment, maybe even the fifth if you separate the original beta from the Ojom P2P fiasco if that's what you mean.

I'll address your post in good faith rather than thinking you as a random with bad writing skills.

>There needs to be a rework on combat.... Im not playing GTA: san andreas....

You haven't played the game and have no experience with the combat system whether you've played FoM or San Andreas, and as someone who played a lot of San Andreas both SP and MP, your comparison doesn't hold much water. From what's been shown to us, combat is quite fun but it's not going to be a cover based shooter or a COD clone, this has it's niche and if you can't appreciate it, leave.

>Combat should not look like chicken with no heads but with guns... its 2019 not 1990s

"It's [current year] not [not current year]" is not a reason for something to be changed.

>An before i hear someone say "The game isnt about combat" well your bs ur self an the game. You have guns, you use the guns to take land, and you get more guns to get more land..... Yes its got somewhat to do about combat...

I will agree with you, the game revolves around combat and conflict, to say otherwise would be a lie. There's other things of course but if combat didn't exist neither would the game.

>Get Rid of this FoM combat system an make it more fun for you, and the rest of us. I want a shoot out with my members

We should stop pretending that it's exactly the same as FoMbat, it seems there's longer range, it feels smoother, I can kill people and I certainly haven't improved at shooting so there's a difference here. But on the topic of "more fun for you and the rest of us", you're wrong. It might be more fun for "you" if it was changed to suit your preferences but it's certainly not going to be fun for me or the majority of the backers, we want this sort of combat system and just because it doesn't fit your playstyle doesn't mean we all sympathise with you.

>Buffs while in groups buffs while in cover an so on

Fuck no. If you can't deal with a purely skill based system of play that doesn't give you a handicap because you have more numbers or because you're in some form of cover then again, not for you. Cover can be used, but you're not going to press yourself against a wall and receive 50% less damage or something, play Division maybe.

If you want to be engaged in good faith, work on the way you post and actually think about what you write. I will stand by my belief that I don't think any of your ideas so far are anywhere near decent, and that's coming from someone who's made a lot of stupid suggestions for games in the last 15 years.
 
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MadGamer8872

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Apr 3, 2019
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well then i guess my ideas are bad and we are still in 2006, guess new ideas should be shot down with no new ideas being added to a game. My bad I hope the game works. I hope to see it on steam.

CoD? who says i play cod? i havent played since blackops 1?

hmm i guess the idea i was shooting can be shot to cod... Sorry cod fans

And skill? having better Aromer,Guns,Meds doesnt mean skill. Means time taken. Thats not skill at all. if you want pure skill then make a headshot a killshot

But see a Killshot would not be sutied for a MMO but Hey what do i know, OOF not my bad
 

Skiy

Dilettante

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 11, 2017
117
The Syndicate
Rank: None
Service Points: 2
well then i guess my ideas are bad and we are still in 2006, guess new ideas should be shot down with no new ideas being added to a game. My bad I hope the game works. I hope to see it on steam.

CoD? who says i play cod? i havent played since blackops 1?

hmm i guess the idea i was shooting can be shot to cod... Sorry cod fans

And skill? having better Aromer,Guns,Meds doesnt mean skill. Means time taken. Thats not skill at all. if you want pure skill then make a headshot a killshot

But see a Killshot would not be sutied for a MMO but Hey what do i know, OOF not my bad

Your ideas are bad irrelevant of what year you post them in, you'll just have to guzzle that down kiddo. Your ideas aren't new, you're asking for things like buffs for being in cover or being in a group. I'll break it down, that's a re-tar-ded idea and I'll "shoot" it down until I see a good one.

Have you played the game yet? I'm jealous, I don't even think the devs have played the full version yet :eek: There's picking armor to be better against the enemies you fight, there isn't an armor that is "better" than everything else or a weapon that rules above all, one because we're not there yet and two, that goes against what the game is.

On skill, your opinion on a headshot being a killshot and that being skill is most definitely the opposite of skill, anybody can get lucky and hit a headshot, good players can consistently land headshots but chaining your shots, managing your movement and your items? That takes a little bit more than just a one shot kill.