Community Input - Combat Visual Identifiers

BioXide

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Jun 1, 2017
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#1
Hello Citizens,

Before we begin, I wanted to mention that we'll be doing community input threads more frequently, these threads give you the opportunity to assist the development of Mankind Reborn, we are a community driven game, so it's ideal to allow our community to influence the development of the game. Here's how this will work, we will work on the design of X feature internally, then bring up a community input thread to allow the community to voice their opinion and give ideas on the feature, we'll then grab ideas from both the developers and the community to further expand on the features and then finalize it in the Game Design Document, this is your time to shape the future of mankind! :)

Let's begin.

I've been going over some things in my head that I want to discuss, which boils down to these points:

- How can we visually represent damage
- How to identify which boosters players have
(And know when they are activated)
- Other combat elements which are important

Some shooters have damage numbers, health bars and other forms of visual aid to give you more information and feedback during combat. We plan on having some implants that offer player information at the cost of bio-energy, especially the "combat eye" (dev name), which will display player's health bars and other important information, we want a nice balance of offering enough feedback without overdoing it. You should be able to know what your opponent's "build" is by looking at their armor, weapons, implants, as well as knowing what consumables they're using by looking at their animations (or other features) during combat.

Some questions for you guys (Like always, these threads are for discussion and nothing here is official):

- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?
(They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)
- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)
- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic

Looking forward to your ideas!
 

Hard Hat Harry

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Sep 8, 2017
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The Syndicate
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#2
I would like a little more realism added to the combat. Let's say someone gets below a certain HP, they go into a wounded animation and if hurt bad enough, they just fall down unable to fight. Perhaps put it on a delay so that it won't affect the fight, but if the person somehow escapes, they'll fall over wounded after a few mins.
 

PhoenixMask

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Jun 2, 2017
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#3
- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
Blood particle worked fine for FoM and would still work fine here
Maybe some slight limping animation would be fine when the player is near death, but something in FoM I liked is how you could figure out that someone was almost dead due to the person focusing more on dodging than shooting/spazzing. Animations would take some of that depth out of combat.

- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?
(They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)


Would probably look really derpy considering players are popping meds while constantly shooting in this kind of combat. I wouldn't mind having this but would probably be hard to get it right

- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him?
(EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)


With an implant: Yes, would be interesting for some people to be able to take this implant and provide some intel during combat, as long as there are some others good options for implants in the same slot so this doesn't just become default. I'm against it showing health though due to what I pointed out before.
As for particles i'm worried about clutter. Everyone would be constantly green due to healing most of the time, if we add particles for every buff it would get worse . It's bad for people to understand what's going on(and the combat in this game is already pretty chaotic) and imo breaks a bit of the immersion that we need in the game.
 

Tod Maddux

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Jun 30, 2017
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#4
Can we have scroll combat text? I want to be able to see when I get a crit.
 
Oct 5, 2017
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Guns of the Conclave
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#6
I would like a little more realism added to the combat. Let's say someone gets below a certain HP, they go into a wounded animation and if hurt bad enough, they just fall down unable to fight. Perhaps put it on a delay so that it won't affect the fight, but if the person somehow escapes, they'll fall over wounded after a few mins.
I'm not sure.... This could get kinda weird in zerg fights.
 

Skiy

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#7
I would like a little more realism added to the combat. Let's say someone gets below a certain HP, they go into a wounded animation and if hurt bad enough, they just fall down unable to fight. Perhaps put it on a delay so that it won't affect the fight, but if the person somehow escapes, they'll fall over wounded after a few mins.
Personally I'd rather just have a DBNO system. Have the HP be 100 with it able to go down to -20 or something, between 0 and -20 you're downed and can be picked up or just executed.
 

macmardigan

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Jun 28, 2017
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#8
- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
How about having an electrocardiogram which is displayed when you have a proper eye implant? This graph would be altered by wounds, the use of boosters and meds.
- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant) Why not? You could also add a square for the med he’s taking and remove the green particle.
- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic
Will there be any friend and foe identification system? If so, will departments be able to override general settings by HC?
 
Nov 5, 2017
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Terran Defense Corps
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#9
- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
An immersive way to show how bad a character is hurt would be to show blood and wounds on the character's body and ripped clothes / damaged armor as his health points gets lower. It does require a lot more work to create different skins for every piece of clothing and armor though so I don't know if that is even a possibility.
I know Black Desert does this, Darkfall used to do it too. To give examples of what I'm talking about.

- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?
This would definitely help but these item animations shouldn't be too long otherwise it might be frustrating to die as you are stuck in animation. If an item is not instant use (like a large medkit for example), you should be allowed to quickly cancel the animation.

- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him?
I'm not a fan of too many particle effects as it tends to make battles look like a mess. Maybe the implant could allow you to see direct stats when you target a character, I kinda liked the electrocardiogram idea.[/quote][/quote]
 

Cadonez

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Jul 29, 2017
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#10
Maybe a targeting implant that shows an individual or group the target (target painter gun in fom sucked, maybe last person shot by group leader and he presses a function key to lock that target)
 

Hard Hat Harry

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#11
An immersive way to show how bad a character is hurt would be to show blood and wounds on the character's body and ripped clothes / damaged armor as his health points gets lower. It does require a lot more work to create different skins for every piece of clothing and armor though so I don't know if that is even a possibility.
I think it should be the opposite. As I gain the upper hand in a duel, my arms should keep getting bigger and bigger. Once my opponent is below 10 HP, the arms will rip through my shirt.
 
Jul 12, 2017
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#12
Hello Citizens,

Before we begin, I wanted to mention that we'll be doing community input threads more frequently, these threads give you the opportunity to assist the development of Mankind Reborn, we are a community driven game, so it's ideal to allow our community to influence the development of the game. Here's how this will work, we will work on the design of X feature internally, then bring up a community input thread to allow the community to voice their opinion and give ideas on the feature, we'll then grab ideas from both the developers and the community to further expand on the features and then finalize it in the Game Design Document, this is your time to shape the future of mankind! :)

Let's begin.

I've been going over some things in my head that I want to discuss, which boils down to these points:

- How can we visually represent damage
- How to identify which boosters players have
(And know when they are activated)
- Other combat elements which are important

Some shooters have damage numbers, health bars and other forms of visual aid to give you more information and feedback during combat. We plan on having some implants that offer player information at the cost of bio-energy, especially the "combat eye" (dev name), which will display player's health bars and other important information, we want a nice balance of offering enough feedback without overdoing it. You should be able to know what your opponent's "build" is by looking at their armor, weapons, implants, as well as knowing what consumables they're using by looking at their animations (or other features) during combat.

Some questions for you guys (Like always, these threads are for discussion and nothing here is official):

- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?
- Should an animation play out when using consumable items?
(They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)
- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)
- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic

Looking forward to your ideas!
I dont think you should know how much damage you do to your opponent, i also think you should not see opponent's health, this would make focusing people during combat much, much more easier ,imo red pants should get you killed not 36% hp or your wounded animation but i did not get to test mr's combat so i dont know how even combat works,

i dont think i should know what boosters my target have active, but i think it would be nice flavour to have drugs to have affects on players, eg yelling wildly after using certain types of drugs,
 

Sam Lysander

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Oct 23, 2018
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#13
I think that blood splattering is good, particle effects will get messy and cause issues in larger fights. Having an implant that could give you an idea when things are happening with your opponent might be interesting, but it would be better if kept vague. Direct health bars would take away from combat immersion, there was always a rush of not knowing how well you were doing in a fight, and for me that was both immersive and exciting, maybe frustrating at times, but it was unique and enjoyable mostly. As for animations, if they are quick and generally non disruptive of the combat process, it might be alright, it could add more to it, especially when it comes to training your faction to fight, when to use meds and when not to etc.

An immersive way to show how bad a character is hurt would be to show blood and wounds on the character's body and ripped clothes / damaged armor as his health points gets lower. It does require a lot more work to create different skins for every piece of clothing and armor though so I don't know if that is even a possibility.
I know Black Desert does this, Darkfall used to do it too. To give examples of what I'm talking about.
I like this idea but agree it could be difficult, a simpler method on a similar approach to this may be different audio queues. I recall in FOM when you get shot sometimes there would be a sound from your character. Changing the tones of that sound to reflect more desperation as the situation gets worse for them might be a more feasible alternative.
 

TheJoker

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Sep 20, 2017
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#14
- How do you think damage should be represented visually? At the moment a blood particle plays when shot, should you have more feedback/visuals to know how damaged your opponent is? If so, what would you recommend?

I reckon just add blood splatters, scratches tears, damaged armour and bullet wounds actually like they look like they've been in a fight.

- Should an animation play out when using consumable items? (They would still function the same way, but your character will play a quick animation when using one), this will help in understanding what your opponent is using (You'll know when they're popping a med, etc)

I like the animation idea. I guess it would look a little weird in fights but maybe some subtle ones would be good

- Should you know what consumables/boosters the player has active on him? (EXAMPLES: A green particle appears on the character when he's being healed, a "buff square" appears close to this health bar when using the "combat eye" implant)

I wouldn't like green particles or squares or health bars I liked original fom with no HP indicators of the sort made the combat more fun as you were wondering when someone was gonna die, instead of looking at a Health meter.

If someone takes drugs maybe some small changes to skin, face or eyes to show there under the effects of drugs. Would make policing as a cop great as you could look upon a perp visually to see if they were under the effects of drugs.

- Any other thing you got in mind feel free to post it below in regards to the topic

To be honest I don't like the idea of health bars or lots of icons hanging around I would rather be in the moment and watching my opponent rather than health bars ticking down. I believe that stuff belongs in WoW