Community Input - Mining Terminals

BioXide

Founder

Staff member
Lead Developer
Management
Jun 1, 2017
453
Portland, Oregon
Guns of the Conclave
Rank: Princeps (R7)
Service Points: 999999
Hello Citizens,

We have decided to scrap the deployable mining rig system in favor of mining terminals (We won't be scrapping the actual deployables themselves, just the mining rig), it was causing too many issues during testing and I personally didn't think it would fit us in the long term. Now, we're interested in hearing your ideas regarding mining terminals and their pros/cons, also how we can balance out mining tools (manual mining) with mining terminals (passive mining).

Manual mining should offer higher yields at the expense of buying/creating the tool and using fuel cells to reload it and the risk of going out deeper into the worlds to mine.

Passive mining should offer lower yields on a more consistent basis, but they'll cost x amount of UC per mining tick.

We are currently overhauling some mechanics and we plan on implementing the mining terminals pretty soon, so feel free to throw some input and pool our ideas together to get a better result.

Thanks!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tod Maddux

David Ord

Citizen

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
May 8, 2018
69
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: Superintendent (R5)
Service Points: 0
An important lesson to learn is not to gear every situation into firefight, and it relates to passive, active mining and item production.

When a newly created item enters into a persons inventory, it should then display an ownership tag. Be it a faction tag or an individual tag. It carries that tag until the item is destroyed.

On many occasions I found afk miners and production personnel standing still in one area, an easy target for those who want target practice, steal their items and sell them on the market.

In the current world we live in, can you tell me a place where you can store and transport your own items safely away from criminals, unless it was money, jewellery, gold etc which is under the highest security possible.

If an individuals item was stolen they report it straight to the police, and the police will then investigate and arrest the criminal, or they would create their own security force (known and approved by the government) that carry weapons to protect their faction members.

Id say forget the high and low cost of mining, the only cost is what the criminals are willing to take. They may choose to on sell the item, but the risk is always there, if they are caught red handed.
 

PhoenixMask

Dilettante

Supporting Donator
Jun 2, 2017
94
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
First off, I'm not a fan of how manual mining was implemented in FOTD at all. Shooting rocks is pretty boring and was something that people complained since this was a mechanic for reducing PP in DMC. Mining terminals were also boring due to not having any sort of "action" to it, but at least I see the value of how they worked on the background, the materials were actually owned by the faction and that was the driving force between conflict, especially between corps.

My first idea of how they could work together
  • Add a new step to refine materials on the mining cycle. Raw Materials that are manually mined needs to be put in a terminal so they can be refined before used in production, this could be a way to cust costs with an increased risk, and a way for factions to mine materials in which an enemy faction might have a monopoly
  • Mining terminals will mine the materials automatically + refine them.
  • Refinement terminals should be available in just a few colonies. Should be something that will lead to factions fighting over it also.
  • Maybe manual mining should be treated as "illegal". Those materials should be owned by the faction that controls the colony and manually should be stealing it. This will give reason for the security departments of corporations to go around patrolling.
With this I think we add some excitement to manual mining while still keeping the mining terminal as the main viable option. Still has the issue that just hitting a button and waiting for it to mine is kinda shit, but at least player will have an alternative.
Also I haven't done any math regarding this so might have a gap somewhere lol
 

CheSquattII

Dilettante

Supporting Donator
Jul 31, 2017
83
Terran Defense Corps
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
mining terminals and AFK ecoing worked well for fom. It wasnt the most interactive, but it worked because of the interactions in the game. You could gank people, duel, or do watever during ecoing.
having a higher yield/risk option is good too, but it should def be secondary to the passive sytem. (I think of rust's airdrop system, where you can get all that shit through basic gathering, but if you wanna risk a quick jump in gear/resources you can fight it out at the airdrop.)
I would super advocate for restriction on movement while using terminals. Like you have to physically be on the colony you're mining regardless. This is a balance issue, and makes factional control over a rich colony a big deal. I remember in later FoM you were able to mine off-colony, that freed people up, but also made disrupting a faction's ecoing basically impossible.
 

RobDirty

Dweller

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Oct 24, 2017
10
Terran Defense Corps
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
Secondary to mining I like the idea of doors or barriers around the room(s) mining terminals are inside that are controlled by the owning faction.

This could provide increased value to owning a world as the faction can control who has access to the materials in a more direct way.

This would add another layer to faction negotiations and conflicts. Factions can choose to allow all to mine and collect more taxes or limit resources to competing factions. Obviously the barriers should be destroyable by hacking or attacking.

To balance this Earth could have open mining for lower end resources to prevent outcast or weak factions from having zero access to materials.

I think this system could allow factions some.control without having people standing around ready to KoS someone especially in a lower population game.

What do you guys think?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blackthorn

NoahKirchner

Enthusiast

Jun 2, 2017
272
Pittsburgh
Terran Defense Corps
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
Secondary to mining I like the idea of doors or barriers around the room(s) mining terminals are inside that are controlled by the owning faction.

This could provide increased value to owning a world as the faction can control who has access to the materials in a more direct way.

This would add another layer to faction negotiations and conflicts. Factions can choose to allow all to mine and collect more taxes or limit resources to competing factions. Obviously the barriers should be destroyable by hacking or attacking.

To balance this Earth could have open mining for lower end resources to prevent outcast or weak factions from having zero access to materials.

I think this system could allow factions some.control without having people standing around ready to KoS someone especially in a lower population game.

What do you guys think?
I like this idea, especially if it goes to some big "pool" of resources on the colony with adjustable requirements for removing to aid in large scale production. That said, it should only be your buck standard minerals, the most common ones, instead of the super duper rare ones ESPECIALLY on earth etc.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Blackthorn

Kuuwahi

Dilettante

Feb 27, 2018
105
Union City Lower
Followers of Eternity
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
Mining Terminals linked to a Mesh with animations.

Instead of having a row of Mining terminals like in FoM. There are actually big drills placed around mine-able resource area's. The drills will have a Mining terminal attached and upon the mining process starting the drill will display a mining animation with a loud mining noise.

This will create the sense of immersion and alter how game play works, as if somebody hears a drill they will know that its mining.
 

Tod Maddux

Advocate

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 30, 2017
249
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
I like that mining rigs are going away. I hope all deployables go away. They will only be used in ways that arent intended.
 

Roger Sigma

Dweller

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 13, 2017
12
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
Kuuwahi - Instead of having a row of Mining terminals like in FoM. There are actually big drills placed around mine-able resource area's. The drills will have a Mining terminal attached and upon the mining process starting the drill will display a mining animation with a loud mining noise. This will create the sense of immersion and alter how game play works, as if somebody hears a drill they will know that its mining. - I like the idea of the drill look and the noise causing possible conflict.

RobDirty - Secondary to mining I like the idea of doors or barriers around the room(s) mining terminals are inside that are controlled by the owning faction. - I like this idea also. I think it should be a low security door but there should be some sort of obstacle if the colony owner chooses in addition to higher taxable rate.

PhoenixMask - I like all of Phoenix's points. I would like to think of manual mining as something you do for small yield of items. If someone wants to make a few med kits they could do so if the market or taxes aren't what you want them to be at. This COULD be treated as an act of aggression like Phoenix states but that would just be up to the colony owner.

As with any mass production I think using mining terminals/drills should bring lower costs at higher yields of end result product. When going to the market terminal allow the colony owner to give % discount per increments of X of material, etc. Of course they could just set the discount to 0 but let the colony owner choose to force the hand of the player to determine the path they want to take based on the economics/relationships at the time.


One thing I wanted to throw in is storage transport. Of course there should be higher costs depending on distance the items need to travel, how much you are transferring and the colony owners where you decide to store your items.

One idea I had was when items are being transported if the items have to pass through several colonies to get to the destination then maybe there would be a static % loss of product if the faction is an enemy at the time. This would add risk to something that didn't have risk before or makes people choose the path that their transport would take to get to the destination. They could choose a different path that has only allies and it might cost a bit more but result in zero loss of items. This static percentage should be extremely low but the risk should be there. I think the risk should be multiplied depending on if the enemy population of players on planets you are going through is high. This should be tuned based on population but ultimately I would say the risk should never be more than 5% loss.
 

Blackthorn

Dweller

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
May 16, 2018
9
Texas, USA
Guns of the Conclave
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
I personally believe it should be split into two different skill sets, and you only get to choose one. You either choose to skill into passive mining and can only do it that way, or you choose to skill into manual mining and the same applies. And make it so that passive mining can never outdo manual mining but a passive miner with max skill could come close to the farming amount of a manual miner at 0 skill. It would incentivize players choosing among themselves who is going to be the passive miners and who is going to be manual miners for their faction.
 

Egroeg

Advocate

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 10, 2017
205
Area 69, Antarctica
The Syndicate
Rank: Master (R6)
Service Points: 0

JohnFelix

Dweller

Supporting Donator
Jun 11, 2018
7
North Star
Mining
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
I agree with Phoenix.

Passive mining should be taxed at a rate set by the colony owner. However it should be possible to manually mine to avoid paying these taxes. I believe that the yields should be roughly the same. If manually mining yields were greater then owning the colony would not matter - everyone would just pay a merc to protect them as they manually mine. These need to be equal so that the player has two real choices (either fight to manually mine or fight to take over the colony).
 

John White

Dilettante

Supporting Donator
Jul 23, 2018
148
Avalon Enterprises
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
manual mining sucks. It's the worst.
Sitting there and just shooting at a piece of environment for hours. In FotD you could alt tab while pressing mouse button and character will keep mining, you can still hear that sound so if the gun broke or you got attacked you could hear it, alt tab back and RUN. or at least see what scum dared to disturb you.
The terminals were better as you could actually play the game, while you eco'd. That included RP, fighting, chatting. God, you couldn't even chat cause you're using one of your hands to mine, unless you exploited the game.

So to summarize my points on mining guns:
1. they're boring;
2. they prevent you from playing or interacting with the game;
3. nobody wants to use them.


So my idea would be to not forsake mining rigs.
Make mining possible by 2 ways:
Terminals that are at a heart of colony or on earth colonies.
They will work slowly, can be taxed, but they can be run in background and are relatively secure.

Now the mining rigs.
Instead of making them deployables, make them big structures in open worlds somewhere far away from colony center in the ass of nowhere.
They will need a power cell to function, but otherwise they are free and can't be taxed.
At the same time they are neutral structures. So anyone can just walk up to them and take minerals stored, don't even need to hack.

There will be limited number of these mining rigs in the world, spaced really far apart and each producing one specific resource.