Community Input: Prison

BioXide

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Lead Developer
Management
Jun 1, 2017
453
Portland, Oregon
Guns of the Conclave
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We are starting to design & flesh out the upcoming crime mechanics, which will include a prison level (our own DMC v2) and wanted to see what the community would love to see from a prison level (visually and mechanically).

- If you played FoM, What did you like about DMC? What didn't you like? What do you think they should've done to make it better?
- How do you imagine it would look? (colors, architecture, etc)
- How would you like the prison breakout mechanics to play out?
- How will the prisoners reduce their crime points? What activities, etc?
- Anything else that you'd like to contribute, pictures, old fom prison breakout vids, etc
 

Wilbon

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Dec 20, 2018
31
The Syndicate
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Being a prisoner in DMC in FoM was boring in every version of it they made. Shooting lazers at a wall for 2 hours isn't entertainment nor an immersive way to lower PP. There should definitely be a couple of ways of working/reducing your PP that aren't so tedious and boring but effective and each method should equally reduce it.

Perhaps one additional mechanic could be to allow appropriately ranked CPC to issue limited-scope pardons. Think of it like FoM's fine system for internal faction management, except applicable to anyone and instead of granting PP, reduces PP. This could then be utilized by CPC in different ways as they see fit. For instance, they could offer a reduction in sentence for valuable intel if someone were to snitch.

Additionally, the one good thing that FoM's prison system had was AFK reduction. I don't think PP should be reduced when you're not logged in, but just AFKing in prison should still have a net loss to your PP. When you had a lot of PP stacked and were in prison, it was nice to be able to just AFK and it to go down while you cooked and cleaned around the house and chatted with faction members.
_____
IMO; unless you're planning on making stays in prison much longer than they were for FoM, I don't think there's any point to do anything with smuggling contraband into the prison. In the scope for usual prison sentences in FoM, there wasn't enough point or reason to have anything smuggled in unless you were breaking them out, to which you could just meet them at the airlock and provide them gear.

And in terms of design, my only recommendation is to focus on building chokepoints and make it more stronghold like than to line the fucker up with turrets. Turrets are trash and raids should be a battle of raiders versus defenders, not raiders versus turrets and doors.

If you design it so that reinforcements have easy access to returning to the prison and it's designed to be sided towards defense, then even if the attackers are better or have more troops than defenders do, they still have tactical advantage. Plus, this way it makes defending the prison like a sudden in-game event as someone calls "raid DMC" and troops from the government factions reroute their patrols to defend it. It's entertaining on either side.
 

Sawyer Anderson

Dilettante

Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 14, 2017
88
Sitka, Alaska
The Syndicate
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Maybe allow prisoners to actually be able to produce gear (albeit weak and ineffective) such as armor weapons and hacks (If there are doors) not only that but it should be easier to smuggle things in just to fuck with the prison. A two prong fight could and would suck for the CPC
 
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Rian Felix

Citizen

Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Apr 21, 2018
48
Ghent, Belgium
Civil Protection Commission
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Prisoners should get reduced PP for producing gear inside the prison and all produced items go to the CPC/TDC
 
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AtrocityLone

Citizen

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Alpha Tester
Jun 5, 2017
50
Charleston, SC
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: Commandant (R6)
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Definitely need a mechanic that allows certain ranking CPC members to reduce an inmates PP, though such action should show up on some kind of log that other ranking CPC members can view
 
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Safwan

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Alpha Tester
Jun 1, 2017
265
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Rank: Commandant (R6)
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A few important (obvious) notes:

- Prison colony need to be hard-coded to CPC. Only CPC should have the hold over Prison Colony, not being able to be held by any other faction. No FB possible.

- Should have the same 3 levels access to prison (L1, L2 and L3) which made prison break insanely hard but not impossible.
 
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Wilbon

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Dec 20, 2018
31
The Syndicate
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Can we also racially segregate the prison? White benches, black benches, etc. I'm tryna get my Aryan on y'feel.
 
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Egroeg

Advocate

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 10, 2017
205
Area 69, Antarctica
The Syndicate
Rank: Master (R6)
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For looks, I liked the base looks and feel of in FoM, with the main vort area and the mining/producing section, then of course the famous L1 ramp. We need a nice, glorified ramp (with rampy ofc), good ol' L1. The color scheme can be similar, I like the dark feel it had. As for additions, maybe add the ability for a visitors center, for lawyers (if yall are adding more government positions and the possibility of judges and trials for big crimes), or just friends if that person actually will be in for some time. I also agree with Will on the structure in terms of chokepoints and giving the defenders the tactical advantage. Mixing that with the tradition L1/2/3 and allowing the original defending methods (the FL down the hall past L1, the stair play on L2, and the final push FL on L3 and the stairs) to change up a little would be good. Either peepholes/windows for defenders to shoot down at the mass attack as they break through a point, various hallways to split up the attackers, etc.

The alternate breakout method (other than muscling through the prison to break everyone out), even if know is fine if it is something that might require time and support from outside (to speed it up). So it's only viable for those that might sit there for some quiet time as they'll have the time to do it, they can do certain things in the prison without being caught (since CPC will prob figure it out, they can watch for certain actions) and some of those things might require some items from outside (or if no item from outside, even more steps are to be done or it takes longer). So in the end if someone is going to be in for awhile they might take a crack at it with the risk of being caught as they do all the steps and maybe more PP added or being able to be confined and thus having to just sit around or something. I do like what Tan said about being able to bribe HC (R6+ or R4-5 if they're in a specific department) to possibly lower PP or release someone (with or without PP) but it won't count you as a fugitive. Or as Will has said, CPC can work deals with criminals in exchange for reduced PP/Releases. (obv with logging so IA can review any possible problems)

As for stuff in the prison, maybe an open cell type system or area play for lower criminals and higher PP criminals might have to be confined when first brought there and obv, if they have CPC connects or guys on the inside who can "break him out" but just out of confinement and he's able to mingle around. Then obviously various stuff to do that could lower PP. I like the arena dueling, as I could see drugs being a viable reason to be smuggled into prison as if you have a booster in a measly prison fight, that can give a huge edge to winning it and being released. N thinking of for the criminal side of things, if you die in prison maybe it resets your PP back to what it was 5min ago or it gives you PP, thus any criminals able to get hands on weapons will be lethal and could allow for gangs to keep others in longer by attacking them. As for activities, making stuff for the TU, mining, or just plain AFKing/chilling should all be things people can do to be released sooner. Maybe gambling, players gamble their PP in prison games (carve dice out of soap, a craftable thing), or dueling with the reward being moving your PP to the loser. (obv CPC can allow it by providing weapons, and a benefit to them is gambling themselves with UC or for entertainment)

With all that, we should make it so staying in Prison might actually be awhile, especially if you have been racking up PP. Which shouldn't be a problem because it seems PP will be a little harder in MR with all the talks of possibly not earning any unless in a CPC controlled area or if investigations are done, etc. Basically people will get away with most PP gains, unless doing shit in CPC areas, or if they are finally taken down and assigned huge PP amount of a lengthy investigation. Staying in for awhile will allow for breaking out to really be a good option, or let the TU see the effects of that person being in jail (ie. Syndicate R6 & 5 in a big gang, the gang slows down in operations in that area they were in charge of) and thus giving them an edge in restoring order.

As for escapee's, I saw this being talked in HC chat I believe, with the fugitive system and Will's idea on a service to remove fugitive tagging. We could see an illegal device be used to maybe inhibit the fugitive tag people would normally get from escaping, either for a while or permanent (LQ lower time, HQ higher time). So you can easily walk around with a little more ease without a blatant tag, or this goes with my next idea. When a fugitive ports from a TU controlled area, it notifies local authorities in the place they vorted too (or also from) that a fugitive is around.
 
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Sawyer Anderson

Dilettante

Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 14, 2017
88
Sitka, Alaska
The Syndicate
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
For looks, I liked the base looks and feel of in FoM, with the main vort area and the mining/producing section, then of course the famous L1 ramp. We need a nice, glorified ramp (with rampy ofc), good ol' L1. The color scheme can be similar, I like the dark feel it had. As for additions, maybe add the ability for a visitors center, for lawyers (if yall are adding more government positions and the possibility of judges and trials for big crimes), or just friends if that person actually will be in for some time. I also agree with Will on the structure in terms of chokepoints and giving the defenders the tactical advantage. Mixing that with the tradition L1/2/3 and allowing the original defending methods (the FL down the hall past L1, the stair play on L2, and the final push FL on L3 and the stairs) to change up a little would be good. Either peepholes/windows for defenders to shoot down at the mass attack as they break through a point, various hallways to split up the attackers, etc.
I really didn't like the feel of DMC it's a high security prison but it's main door is a 3 man wide tunnel? GTFO it needs to have a large open area infront of the prison with a big ass fucking door
 

Egroeg

Advocate

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Alpha Tester
Jun 10, 2017
205
Area 69, Antarctica
The Syndicate
Rank: Master (R6)
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I really didn't like the feel of DMC it's a high security prison but it's main door is a 3 man wide tunnel? GTFO it needs to have a large open area infront of the prison with a big ass fucking door
I meant more the feel of the colors and it looked like a secure but run down type of prison? idk hard to explain, it wasn't bad and I wouldn't mind seeing something similar in terms of color and structure, but I also wouldn't be against a pearly white high tech looking giant structure of a unit.

N' yeah, I agree with the main door and I meant the same thing with a open area infront with a big ass fucking door. That's what I was trying to explain where I'd like to see L1 be this big open area with a giant ass ramp leading to a phat ass door, that hell could need to be hacked twice (two terminals on either side) to open up, and those with access have to hit the terminals within 2seconds apart or something dumb. Which once past this bastardly unit of a door, it leads to L2 with guard towers or being shot at from above from the defenders could be a threat, especially if they lob nades down.
 

Jade Star

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Jun 28, 2017
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Avalon Enterprises
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I don't think there should be any PP reduction tool, that will be abused. As long as PP is done right, it shouldn't be much issue. Working off PP should take a good amount of time, I mean don't do the crime if you can't do the time. I liked the original DMC and were working off PP took longer. It made you socialize with other inmates and even some of the guards, instead of being in and out. Also having a longer time working off PP made getting broken out alot more valuable.
 
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John White

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Jul 23, 2018
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North Star
Mining
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I swear I remember writing something about prison before...
Anyway...
I liked how LED could compensate for the inches by telling people to get off the ramp.
I enjoyed walking into prison and tort...reforming the prisoners.
Taking bribes to let people into prison only to lock them in there and arrest them for smuggling and attempted escape if they tried to leave.
That's enough about good old days.
Now what I am about to suggest has nothing to do with FoM.
What I think would be ideal, is to see prison that has as much to do as any other world. It's own world with it's unique rules and PvE and PVP elements.
Additional Ideas:
Prison currency.
Or maybe prisoners have frozen assets, so they can't use their bank account.
Allow Prisoners to receive money from someone on the outside, with CPC taking a cut of course. (real prisons do this already)
Cut prisoners from faction and other outside world chats. Maybe allow to access those through a special terminal that they have to pay for, per minute (or even seconds, make it adjustable by CPC or the government)
Make prison with bunch of territories that can be taken over by gangs or players. Those can be upgrades, or changed. For looks it should look like old shit, all rusty and old. Or maybe dependant on CPC funding/investment into the prison.
It should be it's own city, where prisoners can do almost everything they can do outside, like producing (illegal) weapons and drugs.
All in all, it should be it's own unique ecosystem that is cut from the rest of the game world only having limited interactions with it.



Before trying to come up with the layout, an important question should be asked.
Should other factions be allowed to visit prison at all? (No as prisoners I mean).
Everyone has fond memories of the ramp, because when there was nothing else to do you could always have fun with LED.
Hopefully MR won't be as dead and have more stuff to spend time on.
Here's my alternative to prison raids from outside.
Have prisons on a planet with chemical/biological hazards (aliens and firestorms?). Only CPC has access to the prison, so to raid it members of other factions need to procure a shuttle and land on the planet and assault it from outside. The facility itself is protected by AA, so those ships need to land somewhat further away from the facility itself and crew will have to make rest of the journey on foot. Once reaching the facility they can blow a hole in the wall and get prisoners out. They will need to deliver them to LZ for successful extraction. CPC can search the area for the ship to cut of raiders escape, or try to intercept them and kill them all. Now as for hazards, there can be some kind of storm at irregular intervals that will kill any living creature that isn't in a protected environment (ship, prison). It also reduces prison's radar range that allows ships to land in proximity. It can also change environment, thus creating random map for every raid. So to recount: storm fires up, raiders land, CPC get message that something somewhere landed, storm subsides, raiders begin moving towards prison, CPC start searching for them, raiders blow a hole in the prison, take prisoners to the ship, defend location until storm starts and gtfo. Can have aliens crawl up every time storm subsides, for that extra challenge.
 

Wilbon

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Dec 20, 2018
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The Syndicate
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Personally, I don't think the ideas that have floated around about prisoners producing gear for TU factions would be good, as I think the implications of such would be undesirable for most. If prisoners produce gear for the TU factions to have in their gear pools, than it encourages CPC to arrest anyone that isn't one of them because if they happen to have a lot of PP they could be in there awhile and be working it off by producing gear for them. And it may be one of their only real options for a prisoner as they may need to get back outside quickly. It also means that corps can lose out because the TU factions get a bit of slave labor instead of having to pay corps/ecoers to produce gear for the whole faction. Even if it's only C1 gear that prisoners can make, the newbies and the broke can still take advantage of that and it's still worth doing.

Rather, I think whatever is produced inside the prison should be something that no factions ever actually encounter but don't cost anything. But each one produced takes a chunk of the prisoners PP and maybe grants some funds to CPC.

Then if smuggling is introduced, smugglers could provide hacking tools, materials and pmods to prisoners who could maybe hack those production terminals to allow pmods for things considered contraband, and thus make something they shouldn't have.
_____
Anyway, I quite like the idea of a mini territory system inside the prison for clans/families to conflict over. It'd need to be something with mechanical gain, such as taking over the territory containing the aforementioned production terminals and being able to siphon a cut or something so there's a reason for territory control inside the prison.

Then different families/clan may choose to fight/defend turf inside the prison during their stay and there's a good reason to do it because owning more territory in the prison helps fund your faction/family. It means going to prison may not exactly be a bad thing and isn't just an excuse to stand around AFKing all day. Ya got campaigns to run inside the prison.

And it also gives a slightly different experience where there's more likely to be melee based fights instead of gunfights, for a little variance.

I think that's a really good idea, John.
 

Shakespears

Game Writer

Staff member
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Jun 14, 2017
750
Virginia, USA
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Prison could just be a waiting room to enter an arena. Two men enter, 1 man leaves...

In a seriousness note though, having some various sorts of American Gladiators mixed with Running Man competitions where the victor is released from prison would be cool. Even cooler if it was able to be viewed by the public as a source of entertainment.