Community Input - PvE loot, instanced or global?

BioXide

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#1
Hello Citizens,

These threads give you the opportunity to assist the development of Mankind Reborn, we are a community driven game, so it's ideal to allow our community to influence the development of the game. Here's how this will work, we will work on the design of X feature internally, then bring up a community input thread to allow the community to voice their opinion and give ideas on the feature, we'll then grab ideas from both the developers and the community to further expand on the features and then finalize it in the Game Design Document, this is your time to shape the future of mankind! :)

Let's begin.

Straight to the point, should PvE loot be instanced or global? Here are some pros and cons for each:

Instanced Pros
- Everyone gets their fair share of loot
- The loot dropped is only available for you (Each client gets their own loot spawned, once you pick it up it's available for everyone else, if you get killed)

Instanced Cons
- Saturates the economy quicker as more items will be coming into the game
- Items will become less valuable due to supply/demand

Global Pros
- Each drop is more meaningful since it's one loot drop per AI kill
- Items will be more valuable as there's gonna be fewer amounts of them

Global Cons

- Might be bad for hunting parties or randoms teaming up on AI since the first one to open the loot will be the one to pick it up (We can possibly add what items dropped to the chat so we know exactly what's inside)
-
This will incite griefers to steal other player's loot without putting the effort into killing the AI

Let me know which one you think might be more suitable for the game.
 

Hari Seldon

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#2
Global, what magic universal force would be stopping people harvesting things off a carcass before you can (other than the gun in your hand) to justify instanced?

MR is never going to be fair and the equitable disposition of loot from collective enterprise is player choice/interaction and thus content rather than a friend-computer enforcing that people share nicely.

Prove you are the lion able to hold your kill or get together a group of Hyenas.
 

macmardigan

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#3
Instanced Pros
- Everyone gets their fair share of loot
How is that a good thing in a dog eat dog economy?

- The loot dropped is only available for you (Each client gets their own loot spawned, once you pick it up it's available for everyone else, if you get killed)
What would happen to that instanced loot if you get killed before claiming it?

Global Cons
- Might be bad for hunting parties or randoms teaming up on AI since the first one to open the loot will be the one to pick it up (We can possibly add what items dropped to the chat so we know exactly what's inside)
Or you can create multiple loot drops that explode as the AI is blown up, each containing a single item. [EDIT]And if you are feeling cruel some may be actually empty[/EDIT]

- This will incite griefers to steal other player's loot without putting the effort into killing the AI
Isn't caring for people who don't watch their backs somewhat carebearish?
 
Last edited:

LordAdder

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#4
Yeah, might as well keep it global. This isn't like your average MMO where it's better for the game to have more stuff on the player market, this is the livelihood of factions in game and requires some limitations in game. Besides, they are megacorps for a reason, so it shouldn't be surprising for them to have a monopoly on resource gathering, competition doesn't seem like a thing which is why each megacorp has their own markets they control.
 

Sir John Michael

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#5
Keep it global. Maybe add a chat line for those nearby along the lines of *name* looted (x) item from (y) dead alien. That then allows the others to react as they wish.
 

CheSquattII

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#6
Global. If you don't make the possibility of getting fucked up while farming PVE shit then it will be too safe.
Global allows for way more ways to play the game, makes PVP integral to PVE, introduces scarcity, makes the source (the colony the PVE happens on) more meaningful to control, and more possible to control.
You gotta go with global.

IMO having (either primarily or alongside) something (not identical, obviously, but the principal) of rust air drops makes sense. Something big, telegraphed, that invites players to try some shit, and puts the responsibility on players to hold their shit down will keep PVE from being monotonous, and reward good PVPers while maintaining the PVE aspect. It will keep people busy.
 

Shakespears

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#7
Global

I want to stun people right after a big PVE kill and listen to sounds of pure rage as CPC confiscates the loot before arresting the parties involved as "poachers"
 

Safwan

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#8
Keep it Global. It's simple a matter of risk vs reward. You PVE with risk of being killed and looted. Open world PVE/PVP so that we can hunt those engaged in PVE and keep all their sweet loot for ourselves.

Also gives CPC/Security agencies to do something (i.e; protect citizens engaged in PVE). More opportunity for content creation. The loot has to be balanced though in accordance to the risk involved to make it worth it for people to engage in PVE. It would be endless source of beef.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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#9
Do you think playerbase is too dumb to cooperate?
If not, then Global.
About message of what was picked up, I think it's better to go without that. Trust is important part of cooperation
As for griefers, well, just kill them and then KoS. You can't really grief in FoM like game, unless you're really sneaky, and lucky. And that doesn't last forever.
Plus won't it be easier for you to set up global one?
In instanced you would also need to decide how much damage one need to deal before they are eligible for drops. Or were you planing to just give it to everyone on world? whatever the case, sounds like work.

And last one against instanced:
It breaks my immersion, god dammit!
 

Dynamics

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#10
Is there any incentive to PvE as a group if only one person get the loot?
 

Jade Star

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#14
We don't even know what kind of items will be dropping but if its stuff for making gear then Instanced unless pve mobs are all solo-able, why else would you want to help anyone kill pve mobs if your not the one getting the loot. It would feel like you'd be losing money wasting ammo, gear and med-packs. Under a Global rule-set playing with randoms is out of the question you will get screwed over. Global does not support team play if your going for that.
 
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#15
We don't even know what kind of items will be dropping but if its stuff for making gear then Instanced unless pve mobs are all solo-able, why else would you want to help anyone kill pve mobs if your not the one getting the loot. It would feel like you'd be losing money wasting ammo, gear and med-packs. Under a Global rule-set playing with randoms is out of the question you will get screwed over. Global does not support team play if your going for that.
It will incite more cooperation, create more specialized jobs and better for health of economy in general.
You ask "why else would you want to help anyone kill pve mobs if your not the one getting the loot". Well, for money, supplying the faction, or just getting a discount on a contract of items that require loot.
Also what I noticed is people thinking that instanced vs global will result more loot. One could easily tweak the amount dropped in both systems (more in global, less in instanced), so choosing one system over the other shouldn't affect economy significantly.
Idk why @BioXide choose to put economy in cons and pros, maybe it can't be done and I'm missing something. Hopefully he'll clear it up.

People are also worried about being screwed over with global system. Let's clear that up shall we.
If communications are handled as they were in FoM, the "randoms" one would be teaming up will most likely be their faction members. I do not believe any decent HC will allow members to screw each other and creating unrest. And I think you're forgeting that FoM and probably MR is a social game. Reputation and player's connections are more important than in-game currency.
You are not wrong saying that global doesn't support team play. If insatnced is done like it was in FoM where having more people farming same bug would mean more resources, then it's the most efficient way and people would tend to do that. Hopefully that won't be the case.
Everyone also missed that there is potential of griefing in instanced system:
- The loot dropped is only available for you (Each client gets their own loot spawned, once you pick it up it's available for everyone else, if you get killed)
So people can just wait till you move items to your inventory and then kill you and steal your loot.
 

Jade Star

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#16
Instanced can be adjusted and would work better then global, global would cause a lot more conflict as well. It would encourage the best fighters to lock down areas. It's naive to think anyone would care if their not getting loot or money, player connections and money are both important. It doesn't matter which one you go with griefing will happen with either one. Global is fine if pve mobs are just going to drop junk.
 

BÅĒTA

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#17
Albion Online has it set to global but there is a 30s protection for the loot to the party that killed the npc. If I’ve ever seen ninja looters it’s that game, they swipe 6 items before they even load on my screen so we kick them, kill them and, ban them(only if they don’t give it back to the guild)
 

Scavy

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#18
I think this question really depends on player count and how its all handled. If there are enough varied enemies and spaces so that a good portion of the community can go and hunt Global would likely be better as it puts a limit on items entering the economy. However once you have too many players per looting area you might think about making it instanced and reducing the value of said item.

You can always have it both ways as well, instanced for small enemies with non important loot and global for the more valuable goodies. When it comes to two different answers I find the solution normally is best found somewhere in the middle.

To put it simply, 'why not both'.
 

Chip Lawrie

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#19
global would cause a lot more conflict as well.
This is a good thing. Conflict is what drives story. In FoM towards the latter years conflict was somewhat boring because the factions didn’t really have all that much to generate organic conflict (we fought because it was Friday and we were bored rather than for any real objective). In MR I hope that we can create organic, natural reasons for people to fight.

If a group is poaching all the good loot players have a wide variety of routes they can go down to achieve justice/revenge creating a natural story.
 

Scavy

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#20
The most you can do is delay the game from getting into that state. Unless you want to start introducing economic depressions, hyper inflation or crisis events that actively drain player resources and reset the economy that will always be result of games that reward progress.

Though I don't mean that to argue against global because I like global more, it leads to more interesting scenarios. However it can also lead to just the few players that play the most end up gathering all the loot and becoming much more powerful/wealthy than a vast majority of players. That could be fine but it could be bad because as you said eventually you get bored and start using your resources for fucking with people.

Its the trick in a game like this if you want to balance it long term. Which I guess is a bit off topic?