Discussion: Development Update #4

Banjo

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Jun 14, 2017
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You're looking at the mining through fom rose tinted glasses mate, you're not "shooting", you're focusing a beam on the rock (a beam that has a lot of recoil, and overheats which prevents being able to go AFK with a macro) for a couple of seconds till it breaks a piece of the resource node and rewards you with the mineral. You're not shooting a wall as well, resource nodes are dynamically spawned on the world in specific areas, which means you'll have to be on the lookout for AI and players, also resources will have specific spots where if aimed at it will yield higher resources (a lot of games are doing this mechanic to make their gathering better).

Unless I'm missing something, is there really a way of making resource gathering a fun activity? I've already included multiple mechanics which make it more active, having to constantly move your aim down, aim at specific areas of the node and playing with the overheating, etc. What would be your ideal resource gathering mechanic that's fun?
I don't see how I'm looking through rose tinted glasses, when I'm expressing how I don't like a mechanic you are making that was also in fom.
To me there is no difference wether it's a rock or a wall, a projectile or a beam. It's still looking at a stationary target with no apeal or challenge. Sure you might be able to make it fun by incorporating a minigame of sorts where you have to move the laser between target areas without failing some kind of test (maybe related to the tool or to the path of travel the beam have to take). Or perhaps the shooting a rock part of ecoing is just a small part of what it means to mine, where faction team work and planing plays a bigger role, and where you might only have to look at the rock for 5min of a 40min session.
But you've not shown that and I have not tried it, so I can't really judge it from any other perspektiv then the picture you've posted.

Surely there's a way to have a fun way to do resource gathering, this is not my game and I'm no game designer nor do I pretend to have any insight into it.
But just going with a method that have been seen before and proven boring/tedious seems like the wrong route to go.
Try to do some paper prototype on different mechanics. Maybe look into management games or puzzle games or look for inspiration in RL.

Or maybe people really do like watching paint dry and this aspect of the game is just not for me. I could be wrong.

Edit:
I expressed similar concerns on the OV project that you can read here:http://outerveil.com/Forums/index.php/topic,15.15.html#forum
the first part is about weapon customization I think though, so you can skip that part.
 

BioXide

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I don't see how I'm looking through rose tinted glasses, when I'm expressing how I don't like a mechanic you are making that was also in fom.
To me there is no difference wether it's a rock or a wall, a projectile or a beam. It's still looking at a stationary target with no apeal or challenge. Sure you might be able to make it fun by incorporating a minigame of sorts where you have to move the laser between target areas without failing some kind of test (maybe related to the tool or to the path of travel the beam have to take). Or perhaps the shooting a rock part of ecoing is just a small part of what it means to mine, where faction team work and planing plays a bigger role, and where you might only have to look at the rock for 5min of a 40min session.
But you've not shown that and I have not tried it, so I can't really judge it from any other perspektiv then the picture you've posted.


Surely there's a way to have a fun way to do resource gathering, this is not my game and I'm no game designer nor do I pretend to have any insight into it.
But just going with a method that have been seen before and proven boring/tedious seems like the wrong route to go.
Try to do some paper prototype on different mechanics. Maybe look into management games or puzzle games or look for inspiration in RL.

Or maybe people really do like watching paint dry and this aspect of the game is just not for me. I could be wrong.

Edit:
I expressed similar concerns on the OV project that you can read here:http://outerveil.com/Forums/index.php/topic,15.15.html#forum
the first part is about weapon customization I think though, so you can skip that part.
pretty much
 

Ferin

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Jun 17, 2017
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Could you expand on the passive mining systems that will be available?

As a suggestion. Could these manual resource nodes be used for strategic resources? instead of for combat gear.

You've talked about roving turrets outside HQs and it seems there will be some sort of deployables, perhaps these could require a fuel that can only be mined manually? Or if the colony takeover system is expanded on perhaps it could use some sort of strategic resource to reinforce the defense of colonies or to attack colonies. Just some thoughts.

In principle I hate the idea that the most cost efficient way to produce items is so fundamentally boring and quite time consuming. I think pre-2009 way of producing had very little depth to it but it was easy to get into and understand and didnt detract from your overall experience in the game. It's kind of sad that someone saying "im gunna eco" basically meant alt-tabbed and playing another game
 

Arkavus

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Jul 15, 2017
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What's a guy got to do to get a proper hump animation?

I'm interested to try out the mining laser. Hopefully, it's not too tedious. Especially if it is just to try and prevent me from macroing it since I'm skeptical that is possible anyway...
 

Shakespears

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Surely there's a way to have a fun way to do resource gathering, this is not my game and I'm no game designer nor do I pretend to have any insight into it.
But just going with a method that have been seen before and proven boring/tedious seems like the wrong route to go.
Try to do some paper prototype on different mechanics. Maybe look into management games or puzzle games or look for inspiration in RL.

Or maybe people really do like watching paint dry and this aspect of the game is just not for me. I could be wrong.
When it came to a game having a fun resource gathering mechanic(in my opinion), I really liked Firefall did with the thumper system. Basically you would set up a device that would start extracting resources but would make loud "thumps" that would attract enemies to destroy it.

Other options could be done that would give more life to parts of eco'ing. For example, your resources could get stolen if you're doing the passive style while afking and don't stop someone from hacking the terminal you're using or it could also be disabled/destroyed to stop any further progress. As for the active style gathering, perhaps it goes straight to your inventory(like other games) making you a target for being killed and looted.

I just think there needs to be more risks to eco'ing and not just dying. Simple changes could make factions not only try to protect eco'ers but also cause factions to target each others eco'ers to further hamper logistical efforts. (or hire mercs for attacking and defending eco'ers)
 

Jord

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Jun 1, 2017
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When it came to a game having a fun resource gathering mechanic(in my opinion), I really liked Firefall did with the thumper system. Basically you would set up a device that would start extracting resources but would make loud "thumps" that would attract enemies to destroy it.

Other options could be done that would give more life to parts of eco'ing. For example, your resources could get stolen if you're doing the passive style while afking and don't stop someone from hacking the terminal you're using or it could also be disabled/destroyed to stop any further progress. As for the active style gathering, perhaps it goes straight to your inventory(like other games) making you a target for being killed and looted.

I just think there needs to be more risks to eco'ing and not just dying. Simple changes could make factions not only try to protect eco'ers but also cause factions to target each others eco'ers to further hamper logistical efforts. (or hire mercs for attacking and defending eco'ers)
We've got a couple of ideas to make it more dangerous to mine and not as tedious as FoM, I won't go in to specifics right now though, they'll come up in future dev updates when the system is more complete. We want mining and finding new materials to mine to be an active activity that requires you to be alert, as part of the crew with guards or hire mercs to protect you. It should be very possible to steal someone else's materials that they've mined though.

The process of mining will actually be quite fast, so you won't be standing in one spot shooting a wall for 30 minutes. Think more along the lines of Minecraft, it doesn't feel like a grind, feels pretty quick in terms of reward and is exciting when you find rare minerals. It also shouldn't be possible to AFK mine with a mining gun.
 
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Hari Seldon

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We've got a couple of ideas to make it more dangerous to mine and not as tedious as FoM, I won't go in to specifics right now though, they'll come up in future dev updates when the system is more complete. We want mining and finding new materials to mine to be an active activity that requires you to be alert, as part of the crew with guards or hire mercs to protect you. It should be very possible to steal someone else's materials that they've mined though.

The process of mining will actually be quite fast, so you won't be standing in one spot shooting a wall for 30 minutes. Think more along the lines of Minecraft, it doesn't feel like a grind, feels pretty quick in terms of reward and is exciting when you find rare minerals. It also shouldn't be possible to AFK mine with a mining gun.
I am sure this isn't what you mean but please don't have aliens pop up like creepers (there will be enough gankers and hostile faction members already) and don't go the RNG of materials when you shoot a node thing. Better to have RNG spawns over wide map.
 
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Jord

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I am sure this isn't what you mean but please don't have aliens pop up like creepers (there will be enough gankers and hostile faction members already) and don't go the RNG of materials when you shoot a node thing. Better to have RNG spawns over wide map.
Yeah that's not what I mean :)
 
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Trinity

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Everything looks great guys!! Thanks so much, your hard work is showing. I do have one suggestion, from the female perspective... The avatar for the female player looks butch. I'm not sure if that's what your going for, some bad a$$ or something but I'm personally not a fan of that look.
I'm very impressed with the graphics and animation that I have seen so far. Keep it up!
 
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Viper

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Damn this update was huge, I see you guys have been working hard. Keep up the good work! I cant wait for what's to come. I wish I could donate to be able to participate in any testings haha
 

CheSquattII

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Jul 31, 2017
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Shooting rocks was a bad mechanic, don't make us shoot rocks. the AFK mining system was way better, tbh.
 
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Strolski

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Aug 10, 2017
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I am actually impressed, I had thought that FoM had lost hope after I saw that attempted remake shortly after and it didn't seem to be going anywhere, I think it was called outer veil or something along those lines. You guys actually give me hope, I've been stuck with Ark: Survival Evolved a lot lately as well as fiddling with Osiris: New Dawn. But to see FoM re-imagined is an intriguing thing to witness. I will gladly keep a close eye on development. Keep hard at it, just don't burn out. Seems you all have Marko's positive attention. May your efforts be fruitful.
 

Strolski

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Can't seem to find an edit button, so double post. I was actually recommended to this from another watcher, so word is definitely spreading of your game and development. The graphics look modern enough to succeed in today's market, and it seems you are maintaining the good old FoM dance combat style with a few upgrades. I'm actually excited to see what comes next in the development process.
 

Cadonez

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You're looking at the mining through fom rose tinted glasses mate, you're not "shooting", you're focusing a beam on the rock (a beam that has a lot of recoil, and overheats which prevents being able to go AFK with a macro) for a couple of seconds till it breaks a piece of the resource node and rewards you with the mineral. You're not shooting a wall as well, resource nodes are dynamically spawned on the world in specific areas, which means you'll have to be on the lookout for AI and players, also resources will have specific spots where if aimed at it will yield higher resources (a lot of games are doing this mechanic to make their gathering better).

Unless I'm missing something, is there really a way of making resource gathering a fun activity? I've already included multiple mechanics which make it more active, having to constantly move your aim down, aim at specific areas of the node and playing with the overheating, etc. What would be your ideal resource gathering mechanic that's fun?
banjo is complaining just to complain. Do it up
 

Adam Meyer

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Aug 1, 2017
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I don't like the ideas you have for Eco. While I admire the effort to make Eco more involved, I don't want to see a repeat of Fall of the Dominion. I.E Death Legion building massive mining farms and spending all day defending them. I think your ideas for Eco just like Chris's will take away from the core game.
 

Sawyer Anderson

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I don't like the ideas you have for Eco. While I admire the effort to make Eco more involved, I don't want to see a repeat of Fall of the Dominion. I.E Death Legion building massive mining farms and spending all day defending them. I think your ideas for Eco just like Chris's will take away from the core game.
I think this is fine you shouldn't be able to AFK overnight and have a shit ton of materials like I did in pre fotd I would eco when I could when I activity played but I never logged off as I would AFK in a dark corner in p51 and mind titanium till I got up the next morning
 

Necidious

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I don't like the ideas you have for Eco. While I admire the effort to make Eco more involved, I don't want to see a repeat of Fall of the Dominion. I.E Death Legion building massive mining farms and spending all day defending them. I think your ideas for Eco just like Chris's will take away from the core game.
Mining will be explained in-depth in the next devblog.
 
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Safwan

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Defending your rig farms was an okay mechanic. In warfare, you actually had ability to drectly hurt enemy's production lines. that's good for immersion. I don't know why people complain about rigs, they were one of the only few good things from FoTD.
 
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