Faction Payment Methods - Rank Base Pay + Faction Contribution.

Litheius

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#1
So there's a lot of discussion on the Discord, with some solid ideas popping up. It'd be good for these ideas to make their way to the forums, to make it easier for the Devs to look back on when needed.

RANK BASE PAY:
Faction Payment Methods was a topic that came up yesterday.
One idea I was thinking about was each faction rank having a "Base Pay" amount, which would increase as you rank up.
It's basically a pay scale for the ranks. Just like any RL job, when you get promoted, your base pay goes up. This would add a nice RP/immersive aspect to the pay as it's an incentive to climb the ladder, and it's also paying you more for the extra responsibility of the rank (which is the whole purpose of a pay rise IRL).
In addition to this, there's the possibility to add "Faction Contribution Pay" on top of the base pay, which could be faction specific. I'll detail this below.

BASE PAY RP EFFECTS:
Government jobs tend to have higher entry starting wages than the Private Sector (think Interns..) but the potential for wage increase is generally far less. As such, TDC/CPC could have smaller wage increases between ranks, where as the sky is the limit in a corporation. If a corporation can set their own Pay and Conditions, it would certainly spark competitiveness between the Corps when it comes to recruiting i.e. who has the more lucrative entry pay and promotion pathway? Suddenly players are choosing their faction based on more than just the general description of a faction. Money becomes a factor.
Professionals get poached all the time IRL, so who says a high performing officer in the CPC isn't going to get seduced by an offer of a high paying position in the "security division" of a high profit corporation? Or maybe an "undervalued" R5 of one Corp gets a lucrative job offer from another Corp. The base pay suddenly makes things a bit more interesting. When it was simply "faction contribution", there was no reason to leave a faction for money reasons.

Talking more about player freedom/choice, maybe Corps have the option to literally not pay their Interns.... they're Interns after all.... but the potential for lucrative pay further down the track keeps the Intern going? Now there's more depth to a players decision making in that situation.
Re: Merc Cells and Syndicate Gangs, there are just so many ways their base pay could operate. For Cells, a simple base pay method works, potentially with a percentage of the contract on top. This would absolutely create competitiveness between the cells if the cell leaders can choose the base pay/payment method. Players would actually be weighing up the pay and conditions of each cell, alongside the cell reputation, etc, when choosing a cell to join.

FACTION CONTRIBUTIONS:
This is the part that could be quite creative. Each faction has the possibility to have unique criteria for what constitutes as "contribution". "Faction contribution" is essentially a bonus, so it comes down to what the faction values. Corporations value money, so an epic Eco'er is going to be an asset to their corporation, meaning they could receive large contribution bonuses.
There are a number of simple "Faction Contribution" possibilities for the CPC, but maybe bonuses don't exists for the CPC as it's a Government Faction? You work for the system, and get paid your base pay. Joining the CPC isn't about the money, it's about the job and doing what's right in the community, etc. "Average Pay" also leaves CPC/TDC players open to the possibility of corruption... greedy corps offering Officer Bloggs X amount to turn a blind eye, as they know that his pay isn't all that great.
When money actually becomes a factor, you're throwing another element in to the decision making wheel for each character. Everyone was a millionaire in FoM so money almost had no relevance.

POSSIBLE ISSUES for Rank Base Pay:
- Inactive members farming pay: Potential to cut off pay for inactive members, whether manually or automatically (after X amount of time offline).
- A player base so large initially that the base pay exceeds the Faction Income, essentially sending the faction in to the negative: Easy to figure out a work around/scale to avoid.
- People being paid more than what they're really contributing: This happens IRL, it's an interesting problem that is up to the HC to solve. Demotions do happen.

To simplify for Mechanics, we'd need:
- Rank Base Pay: ability to set X credits for X rank.
- Faction Contribution: ability to set what the contribution is, and the % of credits per % of contribution.

With those two things alone, you open up a world of possibilities.

Implementing the mechanics to allow each faction to decide upon their own unique Faction Payment Method would add another vital cog to creating a living world for the players to be a part of. It certainly adds another factor to their general career decision making.

DISCUSS!
 
Last edited:
Jul 10, 2018
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Civil Protection Commission
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#2
Simple additions to this.

CPC/TDC can't set their base pay per rank. This is decided by, and set by the government within the senate.

Although I like your idea of faction contribution for bonuses. I think the better way to do it, is base pay is not guaranteed and instead your faction contribution leads to unlocking your base pay (Think of it as putting in your shift for the day). Faction leaders can set what said contributions are (Per rank and per department if they wish) eg.

CPC -
  1. R1 (2000 UC)
    1. Join 3 Patrol Missions
    2. Scan 2 People
  2. R2 (4000uc)
    1. Join 2 Patrol Missions
    2. Guard Prison at least once
    3. Defend a territory on Union City
  3. R3 in the Union Patrol Department (7000uc)
    1. Lead a patrol mission
    2. Lead a prison mission.
  4. R3 in the Outer Colonies Department (10,000uc)
    1. Lead a patrol mission on any outer colony
    2. Make 1 legal arrests either by helping or actually arresting..

Other ideas for factions can range from drug production, upgrading colonies, mining, producing etc.

I like this idea because it almost makes your base pay for the daily akin to a daily mission in games like Destiny, Anthem, Warframe etc. And although a basic salary isn't the same kind of draw as loot, it does add a small incentive along with more roleplay options. Whether that is good or not I don't know, but daily's seem to do well for them.

A unique feature for corporations could be the abilities to allow for large bonuses to be paid directly by their high command to individuals. Giving a unique feature for those factions, add's incentive to join them for those seeking wealth for contributing to their faction's goals.
 

Kwisatz Haderach

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#3
I like the idea of each faction having a pay scale for ranks 1-6 that could be set by its leader and paid out weekly.

Beyond various automated and semi-automated payment systems there'll definitely also be ways for faction leadership to assign monetary rewards to their members manually as well.
 

macmardigan

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#4
Not sure if I'm getting this correctly, are you suggesting people would be payed a fixed amount depending on their rank or that their FC conversion to UC will be affected by their rank?
In the former case I disagree, people who are broke would have the incentive of not logging in waiting to have enough cash to do something.
The later case rewards them only if they log and do something for the faction. I believe this is the way to go.
 
Jul 23, 2018
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Avalon
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#5
As far as I know devs are planing to do UC and FC system, right?
Just add multiplier to FC gained according to rank.
R0 - 1; R1-1.1' R2 - 1.2, etc
Not giving pay to R0 is most awful idea one can have. What's next? Student loans?
Also as an Ecoer I should say, faction payout is not the main source of income for me. It's ecoing in itself, faction payout is just a nice bonus I can live without. Faction's are only used to gain good bonuses(production discounts) for ecoing.
So people who will be most reliant on faction payouts are newbies and military personal, who you are actually consider to give least pay.
I suggest alternative, maybe another branch of thinking or just something to consider: don't forget departments. Pay can also be adjusted depending on department player is part of. This will help fix wealth disparity that might arise in eco faction between newbies, ecoers and combat personal.
Anyway I think we need more input from devs of what they are planing to do and extent of modification they are willing to make before this discussion can move forward.
 

Hari Seldon

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#6
A nice and impactful way to make faction mechanically different and drive variation in behaviour quite apart from RP reasons. As much as MR is an online make believe world it is still being run (hopefully) by players who are real people that might need motivations with parallels in the real world on top of for the simple joy of logging in to RP as middle management in a sci-fi corp.

So long as you still have the ability to give a rank 0 basic pay thus having members of that rank only make money on a gig basis as much as you can use internal contract gigs to supplement for danger pay ect. Deciding where they want to start the line for salaried jobs in their organisation would be an important choice for HC.

POSSIBLE ISSUES for Rank Base Pay:
- Inactive members farming pay: Potential to cut off pay for inactive members, whether manually or automatically (after X amount of time offline).
- A player base so large initially that the base pay exceeds the Faction Income, essentially sending the faction in to the negative: Easy to figure out a work around/scale to avoid.
- People being paid more than what they're really contributing: This happens IRL, it's an interesting problem that is up to the HC to solve. Demotions do happen.
As I think you know these are all player decisions thus content and good reasons to have the system not really issues. HC being able to mess up how they run things/needing some sort of skill in at least this type of management task to run a stable faction is what separates EvE corps from WoW Guilds.

CPC/TDC can't set their base pay per rank. This is decided by, and set by the government within the senate.
I don't see why not, the Service branch leaders should be able to (and be answerable for how they) manage their own faction including how they want to spend what money they have but what total funding they have to start with I agree should come from government deliberated allocation.
 
Jul 10, 2018
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#7
I don't see why not, the Service branch leaders should be able to (and be answerable for how they) manage their own faction including how they want to spend what money they have but what total funding they have to start with I agree should come from government deliberated allocation.
In hindsight not a good idea. My idea was that by making it so the senate has to decide on pay it causes interaction and forces conflict (that of cpc/tdc wanting more pay vs the senate trying to balance the books). It would cause too much restriction on freedom for cpc/tdc.

But i like your idea of an overall budget giving to each faction by the senate. Making it so the HC has to decide on where the money goes. Pay, more turrets, barriers, faction wide equipment etc.
 

Cadonez

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#8
Josh has the right idea. Make base pay unlock by achieving a certain amount of faction contribution points, customizable by HC. This way inactives won’t be leeching, and there’s incentive to log in.
To piggy back off sparks idea, I think departments should have customizable base pays as well.
 

Tornadium

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#9
Faction contribution shouldn't be farmable, At least not in the way that it was drastically abused in FoM. I agree with pay scales for ranks in CPC/TDC for example but it really doesn't suit FoE/Syndicate.
 

BioXide

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#10
Josh has the right idea. Make base pay unlock by achieving a certain amount of faction contribution points, customizable by HC. This way inactives won’t be leeching, and there’s incentive to log in.
To piggy back off sparks idea, I think departments should have customizable base pays as well.
This.

Faction contribution shouldn't be farmable, At least not in the way that it was drastically abused in FoM. I agree with pay scales for ranks in CPC/TDC for example but it really doesn't suit FoE/Syndicate.
And this.
 

Litheius

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#11
Exactly, old FOM was just farm-able. Everyone became millionaires within a few weeks so money became irrelevant in a lot of ways. When pay is so irrelevant, it kills a lot of the interaction possibilities associated with money. IRL, finances play a huge part in every single person's decision making, but in FOM it was non-existent. When money doesn't matter, there's very little chance for corruption, there's no job competitiveness between factions, and there's no real weight behind any financial spending decisions.

If factions have the freedom to set how they pay their members, and how much they pay, things become a lot more interesting.
The ability to implement Basic Pay Scale and Faction Contribution opens up a lot of new doors that old FOM didn't have.

Quick example for entry level set by the HC themselves(Think about the big picture, not the specifics).
Merc Cell 1: Rank 1 - 3 receive 2% of the total contract worth, plus 1000UC p/w as equipment allowance. All personnel must provide their own gear, all ammunition provided by cell.
Merc Cell 2: 50% of the total contract worth will be divided by the number of R1-R4's (Maximum of 10 per contract). All gear provided but members must provide own ammunition and medical supplies.
Merc Cell 3: 85% of contract worth to be divided equally between R1-R5 members in cell (Cell limit of 20). Members must provide own gear, including ammunition and medicals.

Corporation 1: Rank 0 (Interns) will start on a weekly salary of 200UC, and remain as an intern for a period of 2 weeks. Upon completion of internship, Interns will be promoted to Rank 1 and given a salary of 3000UC per week. Faction Contribution bonuses will take effect at Rank 3, of which a percentage will be paid based on the members rank. Once a member reaches Rank 3, the corporation will provide the funds for Level 2 housing in any of the corporation's controlled territories.
Corporation 2: Ranks 1-3 will be paid solely on their contribution to the company. The harder you work, the more you will be paid. Contribution bonuses for R1 are paid at 10% of their total contribution, with R2 @ 15% and R3 @18%. At Rank 4, members become the leader of a group of four R1-R3's. The member will receive a weekly wage of 9000UC per week and will receive 10% of the total profits that their team makes during that week.

Civil Protection Commission: Recruits will receive a basic starting wage of 600UC p/w until the completion of their basic training (1 week).
On promotion to Patrolman, the member will receive a wage of 1800UC p/w and additional 200UC to assist with basic living needs. The member will also be assigned to the Urban Patrol Division or the Colonial Protection Unit.
All gear and ammunition will be provided to personnel by the CPC.
On promotion to Constable, personnel will receive a wage of 2200UC p/w and the ability to apply for a specialised department.
Weekly Salaries for Rank 2 and Rank 3 in Specialised Departments:
Immigration & Customs Service [ICS] - R2: 2300UC, R3: 2700UC
Custodial Detention Division [CDD] - R2: 2500UC, R3: 2650UC
Tactical Response Unit - [TRU] - R2: 2200UC, R3: 2900UC
Criminal Investigation Unit - [CIU] - R2: 2400UC, R3: 2700UC

Anyway, you get the picture. It's not about the specifics at all, as I'm literally thinking these up on the spot. What i'm trying to do is look at the big picture and highlight how versatile the payment system could be just by introducing the option to provide basic wage alongside customize-able faction contribution. More importantly, how the freedom for HC to set customize-able pay and conditions can contribute to increasing the factors that players have to consider when making choices for their character.
Of course there are a lot of other factors that made money irrelevant in FOM, and no doubt with any system you'd still end up with a Rockefeller family situation going on... Still, I think it's an idea worth exploring as it moves away from the linear system that FOM had.


 

Necidious

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#12
Interesting ideas! We'll definitely be looking into these.