Mankind Reborn and Money

Synpse

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#1
Hey guys, I've just seen the new website and have to say it's looking awesome!
I do know that it's April Fools and that loot boxes and all that are a joke but is the actual game going to be paid? Or is it going to be free to play? How is Far Frontier going to make money?

Also, are they actually releasing a new devblog?

(Excuse my grammar and feel free to correct my mistakes)
 
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Chip Lawrie

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#2
Game will be buy to play. With various cash shop cosmetics and possibly an optional subscription

There will be vehicles on some worlds - dunno how many but some of our largest worlds like Mars and Aurora practically demand vehicles so that you can traverse the level.
 

Necidious

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#3
Hey guys, I've just seen the new website and have to say it's looking awesome!
I do know that it's April Fools and that loot boxes and all that are a joke but is the actual game going to be paid? Or is it going to be free to play? How is Far Frontier going to make money?

Also, are they actually releasing a new devblog?

(Excuse my grammar and feel free to correct my mistakes)
Hello,

Yes, we'll be releasing an official development update later today – somewhere around the evening (European time). Our monetization plans are currently still being discussed internally, but we believe we can offer our players fair conveniences in return for their money in the form of a monthly premium subscription.
 

Synpse

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#4
Hello,

Yes, we'll be releasing an official development update later today – somewhere around the evening (European time). Our monetization plans are currently still being discussed internally, but we believe we can offer our players fair conveniences in return for their money in the form of a monthly premium subscription.
Thanks for the quick response. You guys are awesome ;)
 

TheJoker

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#5
Hello,

Yes, we'll be releasing an official development update later today – somewhere around the evening (European time). Our monetization plans are currently still being discussed internally, but we believe we can offer our players fair conveniences in return for their money in the form of a monthly premium subscription.
can monthly premium subscription include rank 7 if so I'm in.
 
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#7
Game will be buy to play. With various cash shop cosmetics and possibly an optional subscription
IMO you should consider allowing FREE accounts using FoM style rules (no free alts, slower PP rate, maybe rank restrictions?) and then a buy to play with subscription.

Free players essentially pay by being content for paying players. Nobody wants to play an empty game. We need as many players as possible especially as it launches! Maybe call them "Trial Accounts" or something?

If you don't have a free option you may as well get rid of the syndicate faction because outside of their HC i dont think BoS had any paying members.

I know I got hooked on FoM because of the trial account system. I had a free account, and ended up upgrading to work off PP faster. Never looked back. Had multiple subs running for my multiple RP storylines, and ate up those MiB recipes on each of them. Without free account I never would have even started. You're hurting your bottom line, and hurting the game by not including some type of free account. Like I said earlier in this post: free players are content for paying players.
 

Shakespears

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#9
Server and production costs are the main reason for charging for the game eventually. There won't be any pay to win aspects like guns, armour, equipment.

With steam now having it's own two hour refund, there's no need for a trial really. Sure two hours isn't long for "testing" but it's enough for someone to judge if they want to get involved more based on basic mechanics and size of the player base.

The big difference between MR and early FOM is the awareness of the cost and the various payment options steam has.
 

Tod Maddux

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#10
IMO you should consider allowing FREE accounts using FoM style rules (no free alts, slower PP rate, maybe rank restrictions?) and then a buy to play with subscription.

Free players essentially pay by being content for paying players. Nobody wants to play an empty game. We need as many players as possible especially as it launches! Maybe call them "Trial Accounts" or something?

If you don't have a free option you may as well get rid of the syndicate faction because outside of their HC i dont think BoS had any paying members.

I know I got hooked on FoM because of the trial account system. I had a free account, and ended up upgrading to work off PP faster. Never looked back. Had multiple subs running for my multiple RP storylines, and ate up those MiB recipes on each of them. Without free account I never would have even started. You're hurting your bottom line, and hurting the game by not including some type of free account. Like I said earlier in this post: free players are content for paying players.
Wow your posting has improved 300%.
 
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#11
Server and production costs are the main reason for charging for the game eventually. There won't be any pay to win aspects like guns, armour, equipment.

With steam now having it's own two hour refund, there's no need for a trial really. Sure two hours isn't long for "testing" but it's enough for someone to judge if they want to get involved more based on basic mechanics and size of the player base.

The big difference between MR and early FOM is the awareness of the cost and the various payment options steam has.
I'm going to address your post in 2 parts. The first is your idea that steam returns and trials for a game like this will be enough for a player to decide if they want to continue playing. My first 2 hours in FoM was spent trying to figure out how the taser worked. Then the next week was spent shooting random people. It took a while for me to get the basics down of what the game truly offered. I understand effort is being made to make this game more accessible to new players, but 2 hours is still not going to be enough time for the amount of depth a game like MR is going to offer.

The second point is just going to reiterate my point about free accounts being content. They fill the world out with interactable players who each have their own storylines and motives. You don't just give players access to the game for free for them to try it. You offer it because how many players would we have missed out on without it? Basically all of BoS. How many other factions were filled out with countless free accounts? How much longer did FoM's run take it because premium players kept paying for a game that had at least a decent player count?

I totally understand if the current model the team wants to go with includes buying the game. I even think you could work with that AND free accounts (pay $X to "Buy" the game the first time you sub, which unlocks a perk permanently, then sub keeps others unlocked temporarily). That being said you WOULD have to offer some incentive to keep people subbing vs buying once and going free. Whether that's faster PP work off, faster craft times, some other quality of life bonus, I don't really know what you guys have as your vision in this regard, but I really think you are dropping the ball if you aren't allowing some type of free access to the general game.

I say all of this as someone who fully intends to pay for the game, and if allowed will likely pay for multiple accounts to play different RP storylines like I did in FoM.
 

Cadonez

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#12
I'm going to address your post in 2 parts. The first is your idea that steam returns and trials for a game like this will be enough for a player to decide if they want to continue playing. My first 2 hours in FoM was spent trying to figure out how the taser worked. Then the next week was spent shooting random people. It took a while for me to get the basics down of what the game truly offered. I understand effort is being made to make this game more accessible to new players, but 2 hours is still not going to be enough time for the amount of depth a game like MR is going to offer.

The second point is just going to reiterate my point about free accounts being content. They fill the world out with interactable players who each have their own storylines and motives. You don't just give players access to the game for free for them to try it. You offer it because how many players would we have missed out on without it? Basically all of BoS. How many other factions were filled out with countless free accounts? How much longer did FoM's run take it because premium players kept paying for a game that had at least a decent player count?

I totally understand if the current model the team wants to go with includes buying the game. I even think you could work with that AND free accounts (pay $X to "Buy" the game the first time you sub, which unlocks a perk permanently, then sub keeps others unlocked temporarily). That being said you WOULD have to offer some incentive to keep people subbing vs buying once and going free. Whether that's faster PP work off, faster craft times, some other quality of life bonus, I don't really know what you guys have as your vision in this regard, but I really think you are dropping the ball if you aren't allowing some type of free access to the general game.

I say all of this as someone who fully intends to pay for the game, and if allowed will likely pay for multiple accounts to play different RP storylines like I did in FoM.
A great post grukan. Everytime you post it just seems more and more like a different person.
 

Egroeg

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#13
I'm going to address your post in 2 parts. The first is your idea that steam returns and trials for a game like this will be enough for a player to decide if they want to continue playing. My first 2 hours in FoM was spent trying to figure out how the taser worked. Then the next week was spent shooting random people. It took a while for me to get the basics down of what the game truly offered. I understand effort is being made to make this game more accessible to new players, but 2 hours is still not going to be enough time for the amount of depth a game like MR is going to offer.

The second point is just going to reiterate my point about free accounts being content. They fill the world out with interactable players who each have their own storylines and motives. You don't just give players access to the game for free for them to try it. You offer it because how many players would we have missed out on without it? Basically all of BoS. How many other factions were filled out with countless free accounts? How much longer did FoM's run take it because premium players kept paying for a game that had at least a decent player count?

I totally understand if the current model the team wants to go with includes buying the game. I even think you could work with that AND free accounts (pay $X to "Buy" the game the first time you sub, which unlocks a perk permanently, then sub keeps others unlocked temporarily). That being said you WOULD have to offer some incentive to keep people subbing vs buying once and going free. Whether that's faster PP work off, faster craft times, some other quality of life bonus, I don't really know what you guys have as your vision in this regard, but I really think you are dropping the ball if you aren't allowing some type of free access to the general game.

I say all of this as someone who fully intends to pay for the game, and if allowed will likely pay for multiple accounts to play different RP storylines like I did in FoM.
I don't anyone is gunna be able to refund because 2 hours ain't that long, so unless the game is straight up unappealing the first two hours, then people won't be able to Steam refund.

I'm fine with the game being a simple $30, I don't this team is like major companies that release bug-ridden "AAA" games for $60 and keep it there for 10years because it's oh so AAA and perfect. Even if it's $60 and offers a ton, or raises up to that in years because of the development that comes along, it may be worth it, but as far as I remember hearing and just knowing the team I can see it not being too much. Where enough will be done and properly advertised that it'll easily draw in players that can drop a mere $30 and play forever. This simple cost can easily help pay for servers alone if it's steadily bringing enough for whatever the cost is. Then there's the decent amount who generally like donating even if they don't get much out of it, but because they wan't to just support. But if a ton of cosmetic things are offered, I can easily see most people dropping the occasional $5 every now and then for some shit and of course those cosmetic lords who want a little of everything spending a bit. With a SUB option offering decent monthly stuff, even if a cheap one of $10 and a $20 package maybe just offering a free cosmetic and priority loading or simple shit as such will get a fair amount paying for it.

But I thik a majority of vets are going against what you're saying, as far as paying for perks/benefits. I don't think there will be perk unlocks like FoTD/EVE, same with faster PP reduction/craft times/etc. Because even simple perks like that for a sub/paying can put someone ahead ie. Pay2Win. You'd have to offer greatly cosmetic crap or minor bonsues like priority loading or even the slightest clone speed or even coming out of cloning with 100% health instead of 80%...all that is grey area. Sure PP reduce or production increase can be offered but it'd have to be so, so, slight that it won't really put someone ahead enough that it seems Pay2Win.

I'm not against Free accounts, but a small price to play forever with decent sub system and a large cosmetic shop should be enough to keep everything running if there's a decent amount of players/even a small amount at times. But even a free/trial account will seems those who bought are Pay2Win, such as those being free won't feel like they belong and are just kind of spectating, and thus might just bail because they won't be exposed enough, so if it is an option it'd have to offer enough where they'd want to go buy and experience it all, but if it's too little they'll just uninstall and be gone.


Best way imo: Cheap Pay to play forever, offer decent sub options without being too pay2win, and large cosmetic shop w/o ruining 'atmosphere' of the game too much.
 
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#14
I really feel like people are advocating the solution to pay2win is to eliminate free accounts.

The fact is you will likely need free accounts to help give the game a healthy player base. You also will need paying players to pay for server costs, and also to re-coup the costs of development. You can't count on paying players without a real incentive, and back to my first point, you need free players for the healthy player base (another incentive for people to pay).

I really think FoM had a perfect system in this regard pre-MiB. Honestly even accounting for MiB I think FoM did a pretty amazing job in this regard. The pay2win meme was never really fair to assign to FoM.

I'll even go as far as saying anyone who honestly thinks FoM's system was in some way unfair played in BoS and sucks cock by choice.
 
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#15
I don't anyone is gunna be able to refund because 2 hours ain't that long, so unless the game is straight up unappealing the first two hours, then people won't be able to Steam refund.

I'm fine with the game being a simple $30, I don't this team is like major companies that release bug-ridden "AAA" games for $60 and keep it there for 10years because it's oh so AAA and perfect. Even if it's $60 and offers a ton, or raises up to that in years because of the development that comes along, it may be worth it, but as far as I remember hearing and just knowing the team I can see it not being too much. Where enough will be done and properly advertised that it'll easily draw in players that can drop a mere $30 and play forever. This simple cost can easily help pay for servers alone if it's steadily bringing enough for whatever the cost is. Then there's the decent amount who generally like donating even if they don't get much out of it, but because they wan't to just support. But if a ton of cosmetic things are offered, I can easily see most people dropping the occasional $5 every now and then for some shit and of course those cosmetic lords who want a little of everything spending a bit. With a SUB option offering decent monthly stuff, even if a cheap one of $10 and a $20 package maybe just offering a free cosmetic and priority loading or simple shit as such will get a fair amount paying for it.

But I thik a majority of vets are going against what you're saying, as far as paying for perks/benefits. I don't think there will be perk unlocks like FoTD/EVE, same with faster PP reduction/craft times/etc. Because even simple perks like that for a sub/paying can put someone ahead ie. Pay2Win. You'd have to offer greatly cosmetic crap or minor bonsues like priority loading or even the slightest clone speed or even coming out of cloning with 100% health instead of 80%...all that is grey area. Sure PP reduce or production increase can be offered but it'd have to be so, so, slight that it won't really put someone ahead enough that it seems Pay2Win.

I'm not against Free accounts, but a small price to play forever with decent sub system and a large cosmetic shop should be enough to keep everything running if there's a decent amount of players/even a small amount at times. But even a free/trial account will seems those who bought are Pay2Win, such as those being free won't feel like they belong and are just kind of spectating, and thus might just bail because they won't be exposed enough, so if it is an option it'd have to offer enough where they'd want to go buy and experience it all, but if it's too little they'll just uninstall and be gone.


Best way imo: Cheap Pay to play forever, offer decent sub options without being too pay2win, and large cosmetic shop w/o ruining 'atmosphere' of the game too much.
You're a fucking moron
We need a player base, you massive fucking dickhead.
Nobody is going to pay for FoM. BoS will have 6 members without free accounts.
You absolute moron.
The FoM model worked RIGHT up until they started introducing cash-shop weapons
MIB was fine, Premium node vorting was fair, even Mk2s weren't game changing.
obviously the golden Zanny was bullshit. There was no "Pay2Win" in fom. If you were better than someone by even like 5%, MIB and Mk2s were now null. the 4% additional protection (which 50% of the time you would have anyway) and the 6% additional injector healing was meaningless if you were chaining shots.
 
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Egroeg

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#16
I'm not against Free accounts, but a small price to play forever with decent sub system and a large cosmetic shop should be enough to keep everything running if there's a decent amount of players/even a small amount at times. But even a free/trial account will seems those who bought are Pay2Win, such as those being free won't feel like they belong and are just kind of spectating, and thus might just bail because they won't be exposed enough, so if it is an option it'd have to offer enough where they'd want to go buy and experience it all, but if it's too little they'll just uninstall and be gone..
You're a fucking moron
We need a player base, you massive fucking dickhead.
Nobody is going to pay for FoM. BoS will have 6 members without free accounts.
You absolute moron.
Please read:
I'm not against Free accounts, but a small price to play forever with decent sub system and a large cosmetic shop should be enough to keep everything running if there's a decent amount of players/even a small amount at times. But even a free/trial account will seems those who bought are Pay2Win, such as those being free won't feel like they belong and are just kind of spectating, and thus might just bail because they won't be exposed enough, so if it is an option it'd have to offer enough where they'd want to go buy and experience it all, but if it's too little they'll just uninstall and be gone..
I'm fine with free and them offering other crap to pay for it, I'm also for a small (20-30$) to play forever. My main point on free was there can't be a middle, they get everything or they don't, going against limiting free accounts like Grukan was suggesting. Because if they're limited it'll see Pay2Win to them (even if it may not be).

Also please discuss like Grukan YA FAKIN DICKHED, U FOOKIN SPASTIC, FAK YER GEH SHIT, AIN NO BODEH PLAY IF DIS SHIT $5, IMA GO CRY ON MY BROKE ASS PILE OF BOXES IN THE STREET CORNER Q___Q
You absolute moron.

P.S. ez R7 going against 6 members, be good for my epeen

I really feel like people are advocating the solution to pay2win is to eliminate free accounts.

The fact is you will likely need free accounts to help give the game a healthy player base. You also will need paying players to pay for server costs, and also to re-coup the costs of development. You can't count on paying players without a real incentive, and back to my first point, you need free players for the healthy player base (another incentive for people to pay).

I really think FoM had a perfect system in this regard pre-MiB. Honestly even accounting for MiB I think FoM did a pretty amazing job in this regard. The pay2win meme was never really fair to assign to FoM.

I'll even go as far as saying anyone who honestly thinks FoM's system was in some way unfair played in BoS and sucks cock by choice.
& I agree w/ most of what you said here actually, with needing a healthy player base that free will offer and the system FoM had pre-MIB and even during such wasn't as bad. I like Free as long as to then cover costs they offer a great shop/sub system that's fair and doesn't offer even decent perks. It being free will definately bring in more and the more the more chance one may sub or spend $5 for a cute lil hat. I just don't want those that are playing for free vs subbing/buying off the shop to be limited or have a noticable difference in power/play style.
 
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#17
Please read:
Also please discuss like Grukan YA FAKIN DICKHED, U FOOKIN SPASTIC, FAK YER GEH SHIT, AIN NO BODEH PLAY IF DIS SHIT $5, IMA GO CRY ON MY BROKE ASS PILE OF BOXES IN THE STREET CORNER Q___Q
Address my points. There was no play to win. MIB and Mk2s never made Vryd Mason any more of a factor in combat. Like, nobody was good because of MIB and Mk2s and nobody was bad for lack of having them. It was slight quality of life improvements.
The 2-tier system of FoM worked fine.
 
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#18
You HAVE to incentivize it though. People aren't going to just donate to keep this game running, at least not enough.

If it was me I would say do it like FoM with one minor change: Make MiB the buy in up front essentially. MiB was a 1 time perk but you could be premium forever and never buy it, which came across as pay2win, because you're paying for the recipe for the best armor (which was still balanced within the game when you factor the costs etc. Could have used a nerf to the weight IMO but the protections, no faction requirement, and color standing out against standard uniforms balanced out pretty fairly with the cost to make it requiring an uncommon drop from the bugs etc).

If you have Free accounts, then put the 1 time buy in combined with first sub (maybe $30 for the MiB comparable benefit whatever it is, but essentially you buy the game, you get this permanent perk+1 month premium to hook people onto the premium), then premium benefits for being currently subbed.

So 3 levels:

Free
Purchased game, but not subbed
Purchased game, currently subbed

This I believe can be marketed as a trial account, then buying the game, then optional sub. Can still be spun as pay2win I suppose, but for a monthly sub fee that you can start/stop at any point after purchasing the game it comes across much nicer.