Wilbon
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Player Personal/Faction Progression & "Reputation" Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Wilbon
- Start date
Welcome to the Mankind Reborn community :)
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Pablo Hernandez
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fuk u
Hari Seldon
Cyberspace Navigator
I am certainly all for specific game based states ('social buffs' like citizenship earned through service that Torn mentioned as an example) being required for various positions in the game, the higher up the various positions you go the more role specific, precarious and difficult they should be. These should not provide a single number relevant across the board, apart from those generic ones that have reason to be applicable across the board. Most should only provide ability and a differential number when appropriate based on some of the ones the character/account currently has ie. Faction states and accumulated points are applicable to that faction and nothing else outside of particular use cases.
A point on this is to clarify exactly what you are looking to measure with them, probably on a case by case this needs to be considered.
Some can be permanently unlocked for long term general game achievements that are based on understanding and playing the game.
Some unlocked until revoked by appropriate IG systems, like citizenship by a court or faction.
Some needing maintenance like being based on volume of production and sales in the last month.
Of the later types there could be some that have specific banking/unlock a permanent lesser version, exemplary would be having faction specific status/points accumulated by being a particular rank, say being HC for an IRL year or two unlocking a banked baseline of being a HC of tenure (that has minimal points applicable to all factions but) with significant but not an "in one" number of points for that specific faction for putting the character in the available pool for future rank selections.
More to come
A point on this is to clarify exactly what you are looking to measure with them, probably on a case by case this needs to be considered.
Some can be permanently unlocked for long term general game achievements that are based on understanding and playing the game.
Some unlocked until revoked by appropriate IG systems, like citizenship by a court or faction.
Some needing maintenance like being based on volume of production and sales in the last month.
Of the later types there could be some that have specific banking/unlock a permanent lesser version, exemplary would be having faction specific status/points accumulated by being a particular rank, say being HC for an IRL year or two unlocking a banked baseline of being a HC of tenure (that has minimal points applicable to all factions but) with significant but not an "in one" number of points for that specific faction for putting the character in the available pool for future rank selections.
More to come
Wilbon
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I certainly think there's space to have both a gameplay-centric form of progression (e.g. complete checkbox, get title and/or other reward) and ones that are gained via social interactions/self-imposed. Players will naturally determine their own goals and develop towards those milestones; "I want to become a SWAT team member in CPC", "I want to run a drug racket in SYN", "I want to reach R6 in this Corp". This form of progression doesn't really need direct mechanical backing as it'll just piggyback onto whatever systems already exist and remain freeform for the players to determine.
I think the general gameplay rewarded ones are fine as long as they remain cosmetic (badges/titles, etc) so that we don't turn into FOTD where producing 500 pistols = a clear advantage economically. That advantage should come from being more intelligent/dedicated to that gameplay loop in comparison with other players. With that, you can eventually make certain badges/titles that are event based (e.g. shadowcore era badge) or some highly difficult task to make them more rewarding when achieved.
r.e 'Built' takeovers as this was discussed amidst. It's hard to develop a gameplan to combat this because the core concept; hostile takeovers of a faction, should be possible. We need to correct the old FoM misstep in that we allowed fucking ancient mongs to hold ranked positions in factions and be utterly useless. Being 47 years old and remembering this game 10 years ago shouldn't be why you should forever be able to be an R6.
But the problem with 'Built' takeovers were that they just took over whatever faction and essentially made them an alt-form of MoTB. A different colored set of mercs under the guise of a faction structure, essentially converting whatever faction they yoinked into another clan. This needs to be prevented somehow, so that if someone(s) successfully perform a hostile takeover in a faction, they're doing so with the intent to keep the faction operating as whatever faction type they are in but just (probably) have different views on the methods to employ to run the faction successfully.
I think the general gameplay rewarded ones are fine as long as they remain cosmetic (badges/titles, etc) so that we don't turn into FOTD where producing 500 pistols = a clear advantage economically. That advantage should come from being more intelligent/dedicated to that gameplay loop in comparison with other players. With that, you can eventually make certain badges/titles that are event based (e.g. shadowcore era badge) or some highly difficult task to make them more rewarding when achieved.
r.e 'Built' takeovers as this was discussed amidst. It's hard to develop a gameplan to combat this because the core concept; hostile takeovers of a faction, should be possible. We need to correct the old FoM misstep in that we allowed fucking ancient mongs to hold ranked positions in factions and be utterly useless. Being 47 years old and remembering this game 10 years ago shouldn't be why you should forever be able to be an R6.
But the problem with 'Built' takeovers were that they just took over whatever faction and essentially made them an alt-form of MoTB. A different colored set of mercs under the guise of a faction structure, essentially converting whatever faction they yoinked into another clan. This needs to be prevented somehow, so that if someone(s) successfully perform a hostile takeover in a faction, they're doing so with the intent to keep the faction operating as whatever faction type they are in but just (probably) have different views on the methods to employ to run the faction successfully.
Chip Lawrie
Byte Bender
I quite like this. I probably wouldn't quite go full Service Guarantees Citizenship (Would you like to know more?) but I think a Cursus Honorum of sorts for various government or Agency positions would be interesting.
I do agree that faction rep should remain in faction.
Tornadium
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My initial point was to remove any thoughts of using an XP based progression system (whether that be reputation or just a flat level up) and replace that kind of personal progression with character milestones that will affect your status/standing in the world. The citizenship path for example would require you to serve in the Agencies and complete various character achievements to consider your "Service" complete.
At which point you become a Citizen which allows you to run for political office or could unlock other game features that would not be available to non-citizens. On the flip side being a Citizen would cause some of the clan features to become inaccessible to you, You could always renounce your citizenship or have it taken away from you by a court or if you committed enough crimes.
That was just a quick 5 minute what if scenario to describe what I wanted to see instead of an XP system. Obviously it needs to be refined but I much prefer a clear goal for players to attain which fits with the universe lore/setup.
Hari Seldon
Cyberspace Navigator
Specific use case of the concept but Citizenship being required for office, certain legal rights (eg voting, council in trial), state backed advantages ect would be a good way to differentiate the haves and the have-nots in the TU, particularly if you think of it from the Corpo-Roman viewpoint rather than just the traditional service branch terms for citizenship.
You could have citizenship be part of employees contracts with corporations that gives a nice vibe of dystopian control of corporations on their staff above and beyond just health insurance and salary. It also enfranchises and invests the corporation players in the TU to a certain amount. Corporations could offer retention bonuses that after a very long term or the accumulation of enough faction points via tasks (as with military or police service) end in a permanent citizenship until such time as whatever authority there is strips you of it for bad behaviour like crossing Kármán line uninvited and under arms as a TDC legionary or being busted as an R6 seditionist drug lord of the SYN. Scope for a multipart class system between Founder and Xenos of the type of citizenship you have.
All of this sort of illustrates another issue though for this version. Refining/altering what Citizenship types does for you, who can dole it out and take it away (particularly as choices about it get delegated below government) sounds like constant patch work. Say the government decides to let a particular corporation leadership choose (and worse even further delegate a decision on) which rank gets citizenship vs not. Lot of toggles to (un)hide in various management screens or behind scenes alterations for corner cases for just one of these types, if you are considering lots of these sort of "social status" ones that is a lot to keep track of.
Chip Lawrie
Byte Bender
Put like that I think it could be interesting, especially if mixed with Torn's things about perhaps upstanding citizens don't have some of the clan features because the clan doesn't trust them.
I'll put up another post sometime between now and Tuesday.
#fourdayweekend
#taxthief
#datgovernmentholdidayscheme
I'll put up another post sometime between now and Tuesday.
#fourdayweekend
#taxthief
#datgovernmentholdidayscheme
- Staff
- #11
Players will have a tiered list of accolades they can achieve by doing in-game actions, such as:
- Refining 100 metals
- Producing 100 pistols
- Killing 100 aliens
These would have multiple tiers that increase the number of tasks needed to do, alongside better cosmetic rewards (titles, wearables, badges, etc) that you can display on your character, your bio, or your nameplate when other players look at you. This provides some extrinsic rewards attached to the actions you do in the game, if you specialize in manufacturing energy pistols, you'll have the opportunity to show off some accolades associated with that. Pretty much everything you do in the game will be covered, so you'll always be progressing through things just by playing the game.
When it comes to factions, the XP system created a gamified approach to having to invest time and effort in your faction in order to have the opportunity to rise through the ranks. I intend on having a similar approach in MR because it aligns with my gameplay first design.
Whether it is called XP, reputation, accolades, etc, the gist would be the same, you join a faction and you begin a progression system, you have to complete tasks within the faction that align with its specific gameplay loop and goals in order to be eligible for growth. Tasks would be group missions, final battles, personal missions, and anything that is mechanically supported by in-game actions and helps the faction, each faction has its own progression path, and leaving a faction will erase all the faction progression that has been done so far.
Once these systems are in place, have been battle-tested, proven reliable and as hands-off as possible, then we can start incorporating more elements into the mix that give factions more player-driven autonomy, provided there are players that can provide this service in a consistent and continuous manner.
Actual ranking up is still entirely based on the HC, the progression path simply provides clear qualifications that allow you to rank up.
- Refining 100 metals
- Producing 100 pistols
- Killing 100 aliens
These would have multiple tiers that increase the number of tasks needed to do, alongside better cosmetic rewards (titles, wearables, badges, etc) that you can display on your character, your bio, or your nameplate when other players look at you. This provides some extrinsic rewards attached to the actions you do in the game, if you specialize in manufacturing energy pistols, you'll have the opportunity to show off some accolades associated with that. Pretty much everything you do in the game will be covered, so you'll always be progressing through things just by playing the game.
When it comes to factions, the XP system created a gamified approach to having to invest time and effort in your faction in order to have the opportunity to rise through the ranks. I intend on having a similar approach in MR because it aligns with my gameplay first design.
Whether it is called XP, reputation, accolades, etc, the gist would be the same, you join a faction and you begin a progression system, you have to complete tasks within the faction that align with its specific gameplay loop and goals in order to be eligible for growth. Tasks would be group missions, final battles, personal missions, and anything that is mechanically supported by in-game actions and helps the faction, each faction has its own progression path, and leaving a faction will erase all the faction progression that has been done so far.
Once these systems are in place, have been battle-tested, proven reliable and as hands-off as possible, then we can start incorporating more elements into the mix that give factions more player-driven autonomy, provided there are players that can provide this service in a consistent and continuous manner.
Actual ranking up is still entirely based on the HC, the progression path simply provides clear qualifications that allow you to rank up.
Tornadium
Virus Creator
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Fake Audie, Please ignore.