Pre-Alpha Balancing and general suggestions

TheBr0ther

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Mar 5, 2019
7
Milan, Italy
Civil Protection Commission
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Me and some friends have played the game for a bit and this is what we came up with, feel free to add more stuff if i missed something, or you disagree and have better ideas.

Armor
At this point there is really no reason to not use be heaviest armor sets: the "heavy" sets give about 46% ballistic or and 51% energy resistance or 51% ballistic and 46% energy resistance. The main problem here is that the armor set only drawback is a 10% movement speed decrease, while the "light" armor gives 26% and 21% in resistances and only the benefit of a 10% increase in movement speed, and the "medium" armor giving 31% and 36% resistances, with no drawbacks or benefits.
Personally, the heavy armor should have more more drawbacks, be a more important speed decrease, a bigger weapon spread, or even a lower stamina cap.
At the same time the light armor should have more upsides, maybe like slighly higher speed (i don't want naruto running characters tho), faster stamina regeneration, and a higher stamina cap.

Weapons
The first thing the i believe is that weapons have way too much bullets in each clip, with most PvP encounters ending before even a single reload. Most could easily be cut by either 33% or 50%.w
At this point fully automatic weapons makes an incredible amount of flinching, like getting constantly hit in the arm on CSGO. This makes every encounter incredibly annoying, since the TTK in this game is already long, at least when compared to most current games, and missing semi-auto shots because you are flinching more than a man with Parkinson, all the while your enemy is healing every second with medkits.

Ballistic - Energy
At this point in developement i don't feel any reason why there should be two different damage types, since neither does anything really different from the other, but i don't know what the plans are as developement go on.
 

BioXide

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Me and some friends have played the game for a bit and this is what we came up with, feel free to add more stuff if i missed something, or you disagree and have better ideas.

Armor
At this point there is really no reason to not use be heaviest armor sets: the "heavy" sets give about 46% ballistic or and 51% energy resistance or 51% ballistic and 46% energy resistance. The main problem here is that the armor set only drawback is a 10% movement speed decrease, while the "light" armor gives 26% and 21% in resistances and only the benefit of a 10% increase in movement speed, and the "medium" armor giving 31% and 36% resistances, with no drawbacks or benefits.
Personally, the heavy armor should have more more drawbacks, be a more important speed decrease, a bigger weapon spread, or even a lower stamina cap.
At the same time the light armor should have more upsides, maybe like slighly higher speed (i don't want naruto running characters tho), faster stamina regeneration, and a higher stamina cap.

Weapons
The first thing the i believe is that weapons have way too much bullets in each clip, with most PvP encounters ending before even a single reload. Most could easily be cut by either 33% or 50%.w
At this point fully automatic weapons makes an incredible amount of flinching, like getting constantly hit in the arm on CSGO. This makes every encounter incredibly annoying, since the TTK in this game is already long, at least when compared to most current games, and missing semi-auto shots because you are flinching more than a man with Parkinson, all the while your enemy is healing every second with medkits.

Ballistic - Energy
At this point in developement i don't feel any reason why there should be two different damage types, since neither does anything really different from the other, but i don't know what the plans are as developement go on.
Very nice, looking forward to more feedback in regards to item values, especially armors as we have over 45 individual pieces at the moment so it's quite a challenge to properly balance. I feel that the max protection values are fine, but it's mainly the lower sets that need adjustment, we can either bump the protection from the lower sets or adjust the secondary stats on all sets (add more speed penalty to heavy armor and increase speed on light armor). But also we can experiment with removing speed from armor sets and just allow it on booster/implants.

Consumable values and weapon magazine sizes are another thing to consider as well, so please feel free to give as much feedback as possible on this so we make decisions from an informed and abundant position of community input, I really wanna take things carefully with the combat as it's the core of the game and we all know what happened when the combat stuff changes overnight without considering the community's input on it beforehand.

Also just to add to the ballistic/energy, apart from the rock, paper & scissors selection, once mods & different ammo types come in, there will be a big difference in the weapons. You can load up EMP rounds on energy weapons and stun rounds on some ballistic weapons, plus some other cool things to give these damage types more variation.

So here's what I'll be doing for the next patch which should be out tomorrow:
- Add a stagger stat to weapons (maybe armor?), by default semis will have the current stagger value, autos will be nerfed so they should allow consistent stagger but on low amounts. Maybe we can experiment with having stagger protection on armors/consumables, heavier armor decreases the stagger while lighter armor doesn't offer that much protection on it

- Decrease magazine sizes, we're using 1:1 fom values on magazine sizes, we can do a small reduction and see how it works out, we'll have better magazines in the future once mods get added, depending on the magazine you load into the weapon, it will provide additional stats to the weapon (EMP damage, more shots, etc, this depends on the weapon type). But this is a core thing so I'll need input from you guys before touching magazine sizes.

- Increase speed on light armor, decrease speed to heavy armor, or maybe bump up the protection values, but heavy armor would still be more useful in that regards..

But yeh, when you try things out please leave some input so we can start balancing things out nicely
 

Qiuri

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Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
April 2019 Pre-Alpha Duel Champion
Mar 5, 2019
5
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
The first thing the i believe is that weapons have way too much bullets in each clip, with most PvP encounters ending before even a single reload. Most could easily be cut by either 33% or 50%.w
I'm personally fine with the current magazine sizes as I do very much enjoy the current style of combat for semi auto weapons.
It is the large magazines of the full auto weapons combined with their stagger that makes them so annoying.
So in that case it would be nice to either try lower magazine sizes with the same stagger to have them serve more as a suppressive role without having them be overpowering in 1v1s.
or to keep the same magazine sizes, but reduce the stagger.
Both could be interesting ways to fix the issue.
Perhaps a bigger cone of fire could also be considered. to make automatic weapons more useless in a duel, but combined in a firing line could serve as a valid tactic. this would give automatic weapons more of a niche and purpose.
 
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Rian Felix

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Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Apr 21, 2018
50
Ghent, Belgium
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: Superintendent (R5)
Service Points: 0
Very nice, looking forward to more feedback in regards to item values, especially armors as we have over 45 individual pieces at the moment so it's quite a challenge to properly balance. I feel that the max protection values are fine, but it's mainly the lower sets that need adjustment, we can either bump the protection from the lower sets or adjust the secondary stats on all sets (add more speed penalty to heavy armor and increase speed on light armor). But also we can experiment with removing speed from armor sets and just allow it on booster/implants.

Consumable values and weapon magazine sizes are another thing to consider as well, so please feel free to give as much feedback as possible on this so we make decisions from an informed and abundant position of community input, I really wanna take things carefully with the combat as it's the core of the game and we all know what happened when the combat stuff changes overnight without considering the community's input on it beforehand.

Also just to add to the ballistic/energy, apart from the rock, paper & scissors selection, once mods & different ammo types come in, there will be a big difference in the weapons. You can load up EMP rounds on energy weapons and stun rounds on some ballistic weapons, plus some other cool things to give these damage types more variation.

So here's what I'll be doing for the next patch which should be out tomorrow:
- Add a stagger stat to weapons (maybe armor?), by default semis will have the current stagger value, autos will be nerfed so they should allow consistent stagger but on low amounts. Maybe we can experiment with having stagger protection on armors/consumables, heavier armor decreases the stagger while lighter armor doesn't offer that much protection on it

- Decrease magazine sizes, we're using 1:1 fom values on magazine sizes, we can do a small reduction and see how it works out, we'll have better magazines in the future once mods get added, depending on the magazine you load into the weapon, it will provide additional stats to the weapon (EMP damage, more shots, etc, this depends on the weapon type). But this is a core thing so I'll need input from you guys before touching magazine sizes.

- Increase speed on light armor, decrease speed to heavy armor, or maybe bump up the protection values, but heavy armor would still be more useful in that regards..

But yeh, when you try things out please leave some input so we can start balancing things out nicely
Perhaps heavy armor should get a small health regen debuff, so heavy armor could be used to survive initial contact but light armor can fight sustained fights
 
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Cadonez

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Jul 29, 2017
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Brumpapa
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Do not touch magazine sizes. As far as the TTK i think it allows for a fair amount of time for push/pull in a duel. 50 shots in most rifles seems to be a good benchmark.
 

magistral

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Jun 8, 2017
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South Korea
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Chances are you were already planning on adding this later on, but I may as well post it:
- Being able to scroll to zoom closer and farther to your character makes a pretty big difference in individual play styles (like some folks in FoM used to zoom all the way in, and some zoomed out to see their character's entire body)
 

puscrusher

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Apr 15, 2019
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Oda Zaibatsu
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when people shoot something it feels good when there is an immediate effect. long ttk also diminishes effectiveness of tactical maneuvers, teamwork and communication, flanking and surprising an enemy thus becomes less effective.

while the particulars of combat mechanics have to be learned, tactical maneuvers and communication are transferable skills from other games to this one.

therefore short ttk games have a much lower learning curve than long ttk games.

problem with short ttk is that the overall duration of combat is reduced, which is a problem because it should be fun to fight.

the only way to have the same amount of combat time for the short ttk compared to the long ttk is to have more frequent fights, a means for the players to get into the combat very quickly, is needed with short ttk games, even if its a different location with different people.

therefore a player friendly game would be a game where the combat is quick but offers many opportunities for combat.

it is because of this that i dont think heath regen during combat is a good idea, and that armor shouldn't supply resistance to damage.

im assuming that %damage resistance reduces the damage to health by that percentage. if this is true then the the combination of in-combat heath regen and damage resistance is extremely potent.

if you are healing at 10% health per second with 50% damage resistance then you are in fact negating 20% health damage every second. which means if a shot does 20% heath damage, and that it hits every second, you can not die, thus the ttk goes from 10 seconds to infinity the moment you start regenerating health.

a better alternative would be %chance damage absorption and absorption pool. Because these does not have a compounding effect with health regen.

for example, with base health being 100, heavy armor can have 100% damage absorption and 100 points of armor points. medium can have 66% and 66 points, lights 33% and 33. the pool for medium and light may seem low, but statistically speaking anymore than that is a waste because base health is assumed to be 100.

light armor in this case may seem worthless compared to the heavy armor but the heavy armor is in fact not that much better, in a scenario where you are being shot at every shot for 50 damage. with a heavy armor you die in 4 shots. in a light armor 33% of the time u die in 2 shots, and 66% of the time u die in 3. the difference between the best armor and the worst armor in this case is that you are just buying 1 more shot most of the time with the credits you paid for the heavy armor.

therefore if you are not expecting to be shot at, light armor would be pretty sufficient most of the time.

heavy armor should be better, the choice of armor should be one of in game economics of a balance of risk and reward rather than pure protection. and with short ttk as well as absorb chance based armor, the difference is very minor most of the time. Resulting in a combat that is tactically balanced in the short term but strategically decisive in the long run.
 
Last edited:

Rian Felix

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Alpha Tester
Apr 21, 2018
50
Ghent, Belgium
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: Superintendent (R5)
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when people shoot something it feels good when there is an immediate effect. long ttk also diminishes effectiveness of tactical maneuvers, teamwork and communication, flanking and surprising an enemy thus becomes less effective.

while the particulars of combat mechanics have to be learned, tactical maneuvers and communication are transferable skills from other games to this one.

therefore short ttk games have a much lower learning curve than long ttk games.

problem with short ttk is that the overall duration of combat is reduced, which is a problem because it should be fun to fight.

the only way to have the same amount of combat time for the short ttk compared to the long ttk is to have more frequent fights, a means for the players to get into the combat very quickly, is needed with short ttk games, even if its a different location with different people.

therefore a player friendly game would be a game where the combat is quick but offers many opportunities for combat.

it is because of this that i dont think heath regen during combat is a good idea, and that armor shouldn't supply resistance to damage.

im assuming that %damage resistance reduces the damage to health by that percentage. if this is true then the the combination of in-combat heath regen and damage resistance is extremely potent.

if you are healing at 10% health per second with 50% damage resistance then you are in fact negating 20% health damage every second. which means if a shot does 20% heath damage, and that it hits every second, you can not die, thus the ttk goes from 10 seconds to infinity the moment you start regenerating health.

a better alternative would be %chance damage absorption and absorption pool. Because these does not have a compounding effect with health regen.

for example, with base health being 100, heavy armor can have 100% damage absorption and 100 points of armor points. medium can have 66% and 66 points, lights 33% and 33. the pool for medium and light may seem low, but statistically speaking anymore than that is a waste because base health is assumed to be 100.

light armor in this case may seem worthless compared to the heavy armor but the heavy armor is in fact not that much better, in a scenario where you are being shot at every shot for 50 damage. with a heavy armor you die in 4 shots. in a light armor 33% of the time u die in 2 shots, and 66% of the time u die in 3. the difference between the best armor and the worst armor in this case is that you are just buying 1 more shot most of the time with the credits you paid for the heavy armor.

therefore if you are not expecting to be shot at, light armor would be pretty sufficient most of the time.

heavy armor should be better, the choice of armor should be one of in game economics of a balance of risk and reward rather than pure protection. and with short ttk as well as absorb chance based armor, the difference is very minor most of the time. Resulting in a combat that is tactically balanced in the short term but strategically decisive in the long run.
With all due respect. No. In a game where combat is 90% skill and 10% gear, having a % chance is a horrible idea
 

Rian Felix

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Ghent, Belgium
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Rank: Superintendent (R5)
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(in response to lowering full auto clips to 60)
MDS executive at 7 damage per shot vs pp7 at 18 damage per shot

With Dino Rex armor + Avalon medkits & Meth.

The MDS executive would require 40 consecutive shots to kill someone on full auto, no missing. out of a clip of 60.
The PP7 would require +- 14 shots, which are easier to hit due to a slower fire rate, out of a clip of 50.

The TTK for the MDS would obviously be lower, but nobody will hit 40 shots perfectly unless you're playing against an stationary AI.

I would suggest full auto clips of around 70-75. 60 leaves to much room for error.
 

BioXide

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Jun 1, 2017
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Service Points: 999999
(in response to lowering full auto clips to 60)
MDS executive at 7 damage per shot vs pp7 at 18 damage per shot

With Dino Rex armor + Avalon medkits & Meth.

The MDS executive would require 40 consecutive shots to kill someone on full auto, no missing. out of a clip of 60.
The PP7 would require +- 14 shots, which are easier to hit due to a slower fire rate, out of a clip of 50.

The TTK for the MDS would obviously be lower, but nobody will hit 40 shots perfectly unless you're playing against an stationary AI.

I would suggest full auto clips of around 70-75. 60 leaves to much room for error.
I'll be increasing auto mag size to 75 in next build
 

puscrusher

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Apr 15, 2019
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i didnt want to say %chance because i know people will fixate on the word.

what i suggested is to keep armor pool and health pool separate to reduce the over all efficiency of in combat health regen in order to lower the ttk and keep the ttk consistent for each encounter.

i guess im the minority here who played fom but never liked fom dance or fom combat because i was never really good at it. i like fom because i played it as a kid, im nostalgic.

if you want to make a game where you are a god and just roll over everyone because of your skill you can, but no one would play with you because you've already won, there is no longer a game.

the game is no longer a game when the players have little chance against people who played the game longer.

i see that you separated skill and gear, but with long ttk model i think skill and gear are exactly the same, both obtained by playing the game longer. skill is simply more implicit.

although you say that it is 90% skill and 10% gear, it is in fact 100% gear. because the skill you mentioned can not be obtained outside of this game.

and this is only exacerbated by the long ttk combat mechanics.

long ttk rewards gun play: none-transferable skill

short ttk rewards decision making: transferable skill

the key to prolific competition is variety of parameters that contributes to a victory. when you limit it to only reward gun play by having long ttk and methods to even lengthen the ttk by combining armor resist with in-combat health regen. the outcome becomes predictable in almost every situation in favor of gun play which is essentially gear, and the game stops.

communication, teamwork, map awareness, decision making and even luck should all be valid parameters to combat. not only because of the variety it brings but because they are transferable skills, where the source of the skill can be outside of the outcome of this particular game. where the losses doesn't entire impede the outcome of future games.

the combination of long ttk, high none-transferable skill dependency, significant repercussion for death is essentially oppressive, and impact game participation negatively.

allow me to explain by naming a few successful titles: csgo, pubg, rust, overwatch

csgo:
-short ttk
-low none-transferable skill dependency, because of matchmaking, equipment easy to obtain and advantage limited to single match
-low death repercussion, death results in losing the match, nothing else.

pubg:
-short ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, no match making?, equipment somewhat more difficult to obtain.
-low death repercussion, losses in one match does not influence out come of future matches

rust:
-short ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, equipment have significant advantage.
-high death repercussion, when you die you can lose everything you gained, and you have to start with a rock again.

overwatch:
-long ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, due to variety of choice of combat styles.
-low death repercussion, again no significant future out come impact

in a game where there is no match making, high death repercussion, and where you can't gain the upper hand by leveraging skills other than gun play, you are taking away all the tools a player would have to actually win the game.

players will lose and every time they lose they have to wait a long time to get back to where they were, and then they will lose again. most would stop playing, some will keep playing. and those that kept playing git gud, and then the cycle continues until only a handful of people still plays.

if long ttk is a must for whatever reason, systems must be put in place to reduce death repercussion in influencing outcome of future engagements, and significant increase in variety of combat styles, to limit the monopoly of gun play in dictating combat out come.

including different things like psi power is a good direction to take for long ttk model when it offers alternative skill set into the game other than gun play, things like auto targeted casted damage, and aoe damage will alleviate the inherent problems with the long ttk model.

people here wont like it because people who are left from playing fom are mostly people that survived fom, they are the handful of people that still want to play because they got gud, but to ensure that the game be participated by more than a handful of people, the monopoly of gun play must be diminished.
 

Rian Felix

Citizen

Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Apr 21, 2018
50
Ghent, Belgium
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: Superintendent (R5)
Service Points: 0
i didnt want to say %chance because i know people will fixate on the word.

what i suggested is to keep armor pool and health pool separate to reduce the over all efficiency of in combat health regen in order to lower the ttk and keep the ttk consistent for each encounter.

i guess im the minority here who played fom but never liked fom dance or fom combat because i was never really good at it. i like fom because i played it as a kid, im nostalgic.

if you want to make a game where you are a god and just roll over everyone because of your skill you can, but no one would play with you because you've already won, there is no longer a game.

the game is no longer a game when the players have little chance against people who played the game longer.

i see that you separated skill and gear, but with long ttk model i think skill and gear are exactly the same, both obtained by playing the game longer. skill is simply more implicit.

although you say that it is 90% skill and 10% gear, it is in fact 100% gear. because the skill you mentioned can not be obtained outside of this game.

and this is only exacerbated by the long ttk combat mechanics.

long ttk rewards gun play: none-transferable skill

short ttk rewards decision making: transferable skill

the key to prolific competition is variety of parameters that contributes to a victory. when you limit it to only reward gun play by having long ttk and methods to even lengthen the ttk by combining armor resist with in-combat health regen. the outcome becomes predictable in almost every situation in favor of gun play which is essentially gear, and the game stops.

communication, teamwork, map awareness, decision making and even luck should all be valid parameters to combat. not only because of the variety it brings but because they are transferable skills, where the source of the skill can be outside of the outcome of this particular game. where the losses doesn't entire impede the outcome of future games.

the combination of long ttk, high none-transferable skill dependency, significant repercussion for death is essentially oppressive, and impact game participation negatively.

allow me to explain by naming a few successful titles: csgo, pubg, rust, overwatch

csgo:
-short ttk
-low none-transferable skill dependency, because of matchmaking, equipment easy to obtain and advantage limited to single match
-low death repercussion, death results in losing the match, nothing else.

pubg:
-short ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, no match making?, equipment somewhat more difficult to obtain.
-low death repercussion, losses in one match does not influence out come of future matches

rust:
-short ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, equipment have significant advantage.
-high death repercussion, when you die you can lose everything you gained, and you have to start with a rock again.

overwatch:
-long ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, due to variety of choice of combat styles.
-low death repercussion, again no significant future out come impact

in a game where there is no match making, high death repercussion, and where you can't gain the upper hand by leveraging skills other than gun play, you are taking away all the tools a player would have to actually win the game.

players will lose and every time they lose they have to wait a long time to get back to where they were, and then they will lose again. most would stop playing, some will keep playing. and those that kept playing git gud, and then the cycle continues until only a handful of people still plays.

if long ttk is a must for whatever reason, systems must be put in place to reduce death repercussion in influencing outcome of future engagements, and significant increase in variety of combat styles, to limit the monopoly of gun play in dictating combat out come.

including different things like psi power is a good direction to take for long ttk model when it offers alternative skill set into the game other than gun play, things like auto targeted casted damage, and aoe damage will alleviate the inherent problems with the long ttk model.

people here wont like it because people who are left from playing fom are mostly people that survived fom, they are the handful of people that still want to play because they got gud, but to ensure that the game be participated by more than a handful of people, the monopoly of gun play must be diminished.
While i understand where you're going at, you shouldn't forget that MR/FOM isn't actually supposed to be a 1v1 fight. You duel in order to prove your worth. But most fights will differ from 4 players on each side to 10-20+. Where targetting is the most crucial aspect of a fight. And in that case if you allow someone to die in 2 seconds because 3 or 4 people shot you once or twice it makes the game really difficult for most players. Hell it would make the best aimers even more overpowering.
 

BioXide

Founder

Staff member
Lead Developer
Management
Jun 1, 2017
453
Portland, Oregon
Guns of the Conclave
Rank: Princeps (R7)
Service Points: 999999
i didnt want to say %chance because i know people will fixate on the word.

what i suggested is to keep armor pool and health pool separate to reduce the over all efficiency of in combat health regen in order to lower the ttk and keep the ttk consistent for each encounter.

i guess im the minority here who played fom but never liked fom dance or fom combat because i was never really good at it. i like fom because i played it as a kid, im nostalgic.

if you want to make a game where you are a god and just roll over everyone because of your skill you can, but no one would play with you because you've already won, there is no longer a game.

the game is no longer a game when the players have little chance against people who played the game longer.

i see that you separated skill and gear, but with long ttk model i think skill and gear are exactly the same, both obtained by playing the game longer. skill is simply more implicit.

although you say that it is 90% skill and 10% gear, it is in fact 100% gear. because the skill you mentioned can not be obtained outside of this game.

and this is only exacerbated by the long ttk combat mechanics.

long ttk rewards gun play: none-transferable skill

short ttk rewards decision making: transferable skill

the key to prolific competition is variety of parameters that contributes to a victory. when you limit it to only reward gun play by having long ttk and methods to even lengthen the ttk by combining armor resist with in-combat health regen. the outcome becomes predictable in almost every situation in favor of gun play which is essentially gear, and the game stops.

communication, teamwork, map awareness, decision making and even luck should all be valid parameters to combat. not only because of the variety it brings but because they are transferable skills, where the source of the skill can be outside of the outcome of this particular game. where the losses doesn't entire impede the outcome of future games.

the combination of long ttk, high none-transferable skill dependency, significant repercussion for death is essentially oppressive, and impact game participation negatively.

allow me to explain by naming a few successful titles: csgo, pubg, rust, overwatch

csgo:
-short ttk
-low none-transferable skill dependency, because of matchmaking, equipment easy to obtain and advantage limited to single match
-low death repercussion, death results in losing the match, nothing else.

pubg:
-short ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, no match making?, equipment somewhat more difficult to obtain.
-low death repercussion, losses in one match does not influence out come of future matches

rust:
-short ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, equipment have significant advantage.
-high death repercussion, when you die you can lose everything you gained, and you have to start with a rock again.

overwatch:
-long ttk
-medium none-transferable skill dependency, due to variety of choice of combat styles.
-low death repercussion, again no significant future out come impact

in a game where there is no match making, high death repercussion, and where you can't gain the upper hand by leveraging skills other than gun play, you are taking away all the tools a player would have to actually win the game.

players will lose and every time they lose they have to wait a long time to get back to where they were, and then they will lose again. most would stop playing, some will keep playing. and those that kept playing git gud, and then the cycle continues until only a handful of people still plays.

if long ttk is a must for whatever reason, systems must be put in place to reduce death repercussion in influencing outcome of future engagements, and significant increase in variety of combat styles, to limit the monopoly of gun play in dictating combat out come.

including different things like psi power is a good direction to take for long ttk model when it offers alternative skill set into the game other than gun play, things like auto targeted casted damage, and aoe damage will alleviate the inherent problems with the long ttk model.

people here wont like it because people who are left from playing fom are mostly people that survived fom, they are the handful of people that still want to play because they got gud, but to ensure that the game be participated by more than a handful of people, the monopoly of gun play must be diminished.
Your points make sense but short TTK won't work in this game, it's high skill-gap and long TTK is what makes the combat unique, I've done many tweaks and improvements over the base FoMdance combat that it's not the only viable strategy. There's a lot of weapons and gear you can use to change the outcome of a fight, even if you can't fomdance or aim properly. I won't go over every individual strategy, but we've been beefing out and things like explosives & positioning play a big part in the outcome of the fight, I'm sure there's a lot of other viable strategies just by switching your gear and playing its pros.

We've already seen the repercussions in FoM when the combat was drastically changed, be it the Attribute patch, the FOTD CSGO patch and before my time, the COF and possible other patches prior 2011. They eventually got reverted back to the ana/pizza era which is probably the best iteration of combat, we got something unique here and I want to preserve and expand it further instead of dumbing it down.

Also another thing is that the high skill gap promotes more roleplaying and stimulates the economy, beef lords will be on demand for security & wars as they'll often increase the chances of success, plus the social validation and feedback from people acknowledging your skills.
 

Rian Felix

Citizen

Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Apr 21, 2018
50
Ghent, Belgium
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: Superintendent (R5)
Service Points: 0
The Hacksaw & the Obsidian? with 3,2 damage per shot at 0,1 fire rate should prob have a seperate ammo type with 100 shots. It's very difficult as you have to reload every 7,5 seconds. You can't even kill someone if you chain every 75 shots (with healing and armor obviously)
 

TheBr0ther

Dweller

Golden Donator
Alpha Tester
Mar 5, 2019
7
Milan, Italy
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
Two things today,

First of all, i feel that the pistols are a bit too strong; both for the amount of damage and the fire rate. This makes it a possible substitute for any primary rifle, which i don't think should work for this kind of game.

Second of all, for RP (and funtionally), i would like to be able to see any primary weapons, with only sidearms being completely invisible to another player before being pulled out. This could be achieved by showing equipped weapons on the back (halo style), but i don't know how doable this would be.
 

Cadonez

Enthusiast

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jul 29, 2017
283
Brumpapa
The Syndicate
Rank: Master (R6)
Service Points: 0
Two things today,

First of all, i feel that the pistols are a bit too strong; both for the amount of damage and the fire rate. This makes it a possible substitute for any primary rifle, which i don't think should work for this kind of game.

Second of all, for RP (and funtionally), i would like to be able to see any primary weapons, with only sidearms being completely invisible to another player before being pulled out. This could be achieved by showing equipped weapons on the back (halo style), but i don't know how doable this would be.
Pistols are pretty balanced for the clip size. Maybe visible primaries would be cool.
 

Skiy

Dilettante

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jun 12, 2017
107
The Syndicate
Rank: None
Service Points: 2
Two things for me at the minute.


Grenade Launcher
Projectiles feel a little bit flimsy with it, bounce is nice but it would be great to have a bit more weight to it, I think it'd make it a little more practical. It still bounces quite a lot even if you have a high fire arc which I think should be looked at.

Audio cues when using items
I might be the only one but I'm pretty shit at knowing when I've used meds/boosters, this is a purely QoL suggestion and I'm biased because of my shit vision, but some audio feedback when popping a medkit is something I wouldn't say no to, also a different sound to indicate when an item can't be used, just a little beep to let me know I'm trying to use something that's already running. Give an option for people to turn that feedback off and it might be good for everyone, I dunno, maybe it lowers a skill ceiling or something and people would be against that.
 

Scavy

Citizen

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Feb 1, 2019
69
Terran Defense Corps
Rank: Major (R5)
Service Points: 0
I think armors are fine where they are, but I can see a point about the heavy armors. Their speed values aren't really low enough to not wear them all the time. Even when you're facing an opponent who went with a quick build the maps take too long to flank or are too confined for them to take advantage of it (apart from Aurora if you're in the right position), by the time they make their way around to peak from another corner the other player would have healed to full.

Personally pistol damage is fine, but their drop off range does need adjusting. doing some tests the other day by the time their damage starts dropping off it doesn't make much of a difference because both you and your target are going to be missing most of the shots you'll be taking on each other anyways.

Magazine sizes could use adjusting, I think its fine killing a single person with one magazine however some weapons can kill three people in one magazine and others require two magazine changes to kill one person. This of course relies on how often and quickly you hit them, but the harder hitting weapons could use a decrease in magazine size.
 

Qiuri

Dweller

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
April 2019 Pre-Alpha Duel Champion
Mar 5, 2019
5
Civil Protection Commission
Rank: None
Service Points: 0
I think both armor and magazine sizes are fine. What is perhaps missing is a better medkit, I don't feel like the current best medkit the Avalon one, is strong enough. with better medkits come more prolonged fights. while still allowing for focussed fire and truly skilled players to chain headshots and feel like their effort is worth it.
 

Cadonez

Enthusiast

Bronzed Donator
Alpha Tester
Jul 29, 2017
283
Brumpapa
The Syndicate
Rank: Master (R6)
Service Points: 0
Maybe messing with medkits, fighting outnumbered against anyone with more than 30 FPS is a death sentence rn.